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Technical electrical heeeellllllpppp!!!

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Technical electrical heeeellllllpppp!!!

R

randomspeedfreak

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hi all,
having got the uno running last weekend, its now given up again.

ive got absolutely no sparks.:cry:
there are new plugs and magnecor leads that were working a week ago, the distributor cap is relatively new and hasnt had much use.
its got an 'optronic' ignition system:shrug:

ive got myself a multimeter if that helps but im a complete novice with electrics,please please can someone solve this for me!:worship:

ive put some pictures down of the ignition system just to give you an idea.
IMG_2791.jpg

IMG_2792.jpg


thanks
 
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If you try to start it can you hear the starter motor going?

Not sure i'f im right here, but where the dizzy cap is, theres a metal can type thing attached to it and then attached to the head. this is the amplifier so it boosts the electrical current to the plugs.. if it's not got any power output then you wont get spark (is on FIRE engine so guess this will be similar) Remove that and check to see if theres any juice going to it.. Sometimes it goes bust.. Not sure how much they are to replace though.. think about £30
 
CLXCraig said:
Not sure i'f im right here, but where the dizzy cap is, theres a metal can type thing attached to it and then attached to the head. this is the amplifier so it boosts the electrical current to the plugs..
Click to expand...

Um, aren't you describing the vacuum diaphragm unit? It's actually connected by a vacuum pipe to the base of the carburettor (not the head), where the manifold vacuum then causes it to operate. It advances and retards the ignition timing ;)

Regarding RSF's problem, the dilema is that a non standard ignition system has been installed. Without a wiring diagram it's not going to be easy to know exactly where to look, though saying that it should work on a similar principle to that of the later Unos breakerless system.

First thing I would do is check to see if there is a spark coming from the coil itself rather than just the ignition leads. Remove the coil lead going to the distributor and check for a spark like you would with the spark plug lead. If there's no spark at the coil then the problem must lie in the low tension side of the ignition system, which is where the Lumenition comes into play.

At this point you need to check all the wires going to it, including the amplifier box (the finned unit bolted to the inner wing by the looks of it) and the wires going to the coil itself. Look for any breaks or corroded connectors, clean up/ replace as necessary. You can also check for voltage at the coil LT side to see if it is being triggered, because if it isn't then you can narrow it down to the Lumenition system failing inside the distributor itself. No trigger to the coil means that the optical pick up lense is not being tripped and thus no signals are being sent to the coil.

Have you popped the distributor cap off yet? Have a look inside and see if anything is amiss, such as a loose/ broken wire. Also check the centre electrode of the distributor cap as the spring loaded carbon terminal can break and cause all sorts or intermittent problems. It may be something simple (such as the ignition switch itself)! But at the end of the day the only way you're going to sort it out is by a process of elimination and a methodic approach.

Good luck and let us know what you find (y)
 
1986Uno45S said:
First thing I would do is check to see if there is a spark coming from the coil itself rather than just the ignition leads. Remove the coil lead going to the distributor and check for a spark like you would with the spark plug lead.
Click to expand...

normally to check for a spark i would remove a spark plug, earth the side of it on the block, and see if it sparks - should i do the same for the dizzy lead? i.e. put a plug in it and see if it sparks?

1986Uno45S said:
Have you popped the distributor cap off yet? Have a look inside and see if anything is amiss, such as a loose/ broken wire. Also check the centre electrode of the distributor cap as the spring loaded carbon terminal can break and cause all sorts or intermittent problems. It may be something simple (such as the ignition switch itself)! But at the end of the day the only way you're going to sort it out is by a process of elimination and a methodic approach.
Click to expand...

i have indeed - dizzy cap looks to be basically brand new, and i know what you mean about the carbon thing - had that horror on another uno in the family :rolleyes:

yeah i guess so, i think the ignition switch is fine as it turns the fuel pump on too.

all of the electrics on this car are very dogey, ive been trying to get at the fusebox and associated part of the loom. Ofcousre to do this you need to take the dash out....just one problem - the roll cage is a bloody tight fit...especially to the dash...and has been put in place in a very inventive / difficult to undo, way :doh:

so im cutting the dash in half to get it out next weekend, and making a custom mount for the gauge pod (this will also give me easy acess to all the electrics on the car, which is only a good thing in my eyes)
which leads me nicely on to my next question

im probably going to rewire most of the loom on this car, its just too dogey to have on the road atm, and i need it to be a reliable mode of trasport as well as a barrel of laughs, so

does anyone have any advice on this?

what sort of spade connectors should i use? is there just the correct size, or are some better than others?

what wire is the right size/type? - and where can i get a fair bit of it?

oh and thanks '86 45s for your excellent responce (y)
 
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CLXCraig said:
If you try to start it can you hear the starter motor going?

Not sure i'f im right here, but where the dizzy cap is, theres a metal can type thing attached to it and then attached to the head. this is the amplifier so it boosts the electrical current to the plugs.. if it's not got any power output then you wont get spark (is on FIRE engine so guess this will be similar) Remove that and check to see if theres any juice going to it.. Sometimes it goes bust.. Not sure how much they are to replace though.. think about £30
Click to expand...

yeah the engine turns over just fine.

i dont really know what that is, only thing i can think of on an uno is what 1986uno45s said, the timing advance module...do you have a picture of the part on a fire engine?

cheers for your input mate(y)
 
yeah mate thats the vacum advance module.what it does is advance and retard the timing of the spark, by twinsting the inside of the distributor to move when the contact is made (or in my case when the led light is blocked)

the idea of it is to get the fuel to hit maximum pressure at the correct time (just after TDC)

basically, lean fuel (i.e. when idling) burns slowly, and rich fuel, (i.e. when nailing it) burns faster.

when idling the vacum in the inlet manifold will be high,beacsue air has to 'suck' to get past the throttle body butterfly. When on full throttle it will be closer to 0.

it takes the vacum off of the inlet manifold, and uses it to move the diaphragm, which manually moves the spark contacs to make them closer to TDC, giving you the spark at the correct time.

My vacum advance module is a-ok cheers bro, its the lack of sparks thats getting me! :yuck::cry:

cheers for the effort tho :)
 
im chopping the dash in half, creating come custom mounts for the gauges / switches,and probably rewiring most of the electrical system.
my question is this:
what is, and, where can i get, the correct size wire?

what is and where can i get the correct size spade connectors?

cheers.
matt
 
Matt, as per my PM I'd recommend more trying to sort out your existing loom or finding another good loom. Trying to make a loom from scratch and getting all the lengths of wire correct, along with finding the right connectors and soldering everything without getting a few dry joints, would be one massive headache! It took me long enough (an afternoon at least) to construct a very simple loom for the head unit and speakers in my car, and we're only talking about 10 wires or so.

Have a look at this thread were I was changing the dashboard over in my mk1 45S and you'll see what the under dash wiring looks like:

https://www.fiatforum.com/uno/35761-mk1-dashboard-removal.html

I know I wouldn't want to even try to make up a loom like that! I reckon half your problems are down to poor earths and possibly something suspect about your aftermarket ignition system. Get on top of those and you'll probably get everything working again.

Best of luck (y)

Chas
 
1986Uno45S said:
Matt, as per my PM I'd recommend more trying to sort out your existing loom or finding another good loom. Trying to make a loom from scratch and getting all the lengths of wire correct, along with finding the right connectors and soldering everything without getting a few dry joints, would be one massive headache! It took me long enough (an afternoon at least) to construct a very simple loom for the head unit and speakers in my car, and we're only talking about 10 wires or so.

Have a look at this thread were I was changing the dashboard over in my mk1 45S and you'll see what the under dash wiring looks like:

https://www.fiatforum.com/uno/35761-mk1-dashboard-removal.html

I know I wouldn't want to even try to make up a loom like that! I reckon half your problems are down to poor earths and possibly something suspect about your aftermarket ignition system. Get on top of those and you'll probably get everything working again.

Best of luck (y)

Chas
Click to expand...


I hear that mate, ive seen a few under dash horrors so far, and i agree, its looks to be no piece of cake, but i do want to learn how to do it at somepoint, and i figure it might as well be as soon as possible!

Without a doubt ill try for as long as possible to get this loom working, but as i said in the pm, i just dont really trust old electrics, and a sorted wiring system would be such a weight off my mind.

Ill have a damm good crack at getting the current loom working this weekend and tell you how i get on (y)
 
just a quick update.
ive removed the dash, im now fabricating a braket for the instruments.
the problem turned out in the end to be the trigger for the lumenition - its beam is broken by the chopper in the distributor. they cost about £75 :eek: but my mate who is pretty good with electronics said he can repair it for about £2.50 :D

now ive just got, the bits of electrics that dont work (horn etc), that bracket for dials, rear springs, bodywork (doors and bonnet first) then MOT time!
does anyone know if a hole in the sill is an mot failure?
ill update the project thread when i get a chance :p
:D
 
Last edited:
right guys,
ive ordered another trigger for the lumenition, at £89:eek::mad::bang:, installed it and now i have sparks!:D
the problem is that i dont think they are at the right time!:mad:

i think the ignition is too advanced

i think i may have streched the 'bob springs' (see thread https://www.fiatforum.com/uno/189329-bob-weight-springs.html)

but i don't know if this can stop the car from starting.

i had begun retarding the timing by rotating the distributor (before i read about bob springs) when the battery started to show signs of being flat.

ive got a charger coming so im stuck here atm.

i plan to charge the battery
repair or replace bob springs
return distributor timing to where it was (dont worry i marked it lol ;))
then go from there playing with the distrubutor timing

what would you do?

please help if you can im getting pissed off and poor and running out of time to get mot'd before brooklands :cry:
 
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