E-cigs dangerous?

[PuntoHowTo]

Well to be honest no one actually knows

Lost of people like to justify e-cigarettes as a 'safer alternative to smoking but the truth is that no one really knows as there is no research much like there wasn't any research on cigerettes in the 30s and 40s.

Well it seems finally the research has begun and it's not looking good to start with, an interesting article for anyone interested http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/electronic-cigarettes-harmful-damage-lungs-dangerous-e.html

 

[maddogmorg]

They can also get you shot if you're not careful.

 

[ChrisUK]

Cold turkey or patches is the way to go :slayer: .

 

[Dcthebear]

Carry on smoking if you enjoy it and can afford it! No-one knows when or how they are going to snuff it. Old phrase, 'give up smoking today, get run over by a bus tomorrow'. I ask this question. If smoking leads to an early death, then how old will Dot Cotton have reached if she hadn't ever smoked? As with any diseases, I think its luck of the draw depending on your bodies set up. Some people die from it, some don't. I do care by the way, just putting a different angle on the idea that smoking kills...so do buses!

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Carry on smoking if you enjoy it and can afford it! No-one knows when or how they are going to snuff it.

Couldn't agree me (and I'm a none smoker ).

 

[Dominion]

Carry on smoking if you enjoy it and can afford it! No-one knows when or how they are going to snuff it. Old phrase, 'give up smoking today, get run over by a bus tomorrow'. I ask this question. If smoking leads to an early death, then how old will Dot Cotton have reached if she hadn't ever smoked? As with any diseases, I think its luck of the draw depending on your bodies set up. Some people die from it, some don't. I do care by the way, just putting a different angle on the idea that smoking kills...so do buses!

Dot Cotton is only 39 - she just looks rough because of the effects of smoking. True story.

 

[ChrisUK]

Carry on smoking if you enjoy it and can afford it! No-one knows when or how they are going to snuff it. Old phrase, 'give up smoking today, get run over by a bus tomorrow'.

It's not snuffing it and ending up in a care home (from advanced stage vascular dementia and mini strokes caused by plaque) before your 50 years old that's the problem. Happened to my Mum.

She now costs the NHS / Local Government £1000 a week in care costs

 

[Eklipze3k]

Wait, someone had to do research to work out that the inhalation of carcinogens was dangerous?

 

[ysidfa]

They way this report puts it,

Research at the University of Athens has found that ‘smoking’ a vapour inhaler for 10 minutes increases the amount of airway resistance in the lungs.

The liquid they use to produce the vapour is pretty much the same liquid you put in generic disco smoke machines to make fake smoke or smog, so does this make going to a club and standing near the smoke machine as dangerous and smoking an ecig for 10 mins?

Awesome idea... replace the smoke juice in my fog machine with the nicotene laced smoke juice for my ecig? :devil:

 

[PuntoHowTo]

It's not snuffing it and ending up in a care home (from advanced stage vascular dementia and mini strokes caused by plaque) before your 50 years old that's the problem. Happened to my Mum.

She now costs the NHS / Local Government £1000 a week in care costs

It's really sad to hear stories like this and still people don't heed the warnings.
This is the problem I see every day, lung cancer is nothing compared to all the other problems smoking causes, COPD, heart disease, stomach cancer, head and neck cancers, vascular problems such as stroke, angina, claudication leading to amputation the list goes on and on and on. All smokers justify they habit in terms of death but if you don't die then the concequeces are much, much worse.

Wait, someone had to do research to work out that the inhalation of carcinogens was dangerous?

No! someone had to do research to decide what carcinogenic actually means and more research to decided what is and isn't carcinogenic and more research to find out what has carcinogens in it, then more research to establish what effect those carcinogens might have on people and what cancers result from them...... Seriously where do you think all the cancer research funding goes? You can't prevent cancers if you don't know what causes them. So what you thought was a sarcastic punt at stating the bleeding obvious is in effect completely true, of course some one has done research to establish that inhailing carcinogens is dangerous

They way this report puts it,


The liquid they use to produce the vapour is pretty much the same liquid you put in generic disco smoke machines to make fake smoke or smog, so does this make going to a club and standing near the smoke machine as dangerous and smoking an ecig for 10 mins?

If you are smoking 20 a day then you switch to using an ecig 20 times a day this is still going to be much worse for you than a trip once a week to a night club where they occasionally release some fog from a fog machine, it's all about levels of exposure.

 

[Freebo]

Edit double post

 

[Freebo]

If you are smoking 20 a day then you switch to using an ecig 20 times a day this is still going to be much worse for you than a trip once a week to a night club where they occasionally release some fog from a fog machine, it's all about levels of exposure.

And what research is this on? AFAIK eliquid contains;

- pharmaceutical grade nicotine
- [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol]pharmaceutical grade Propylene Glycol BP[/ame] or [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol]Vegetable Glycerine BP[/ame]
- Flavoring

The only thing I see that is remotely harmful is the Nicotine, but just about as harmful as caffeine is. Apart from being highly addictive it also causes a slight elevation of the heart rate amongst other things

Compare that to actual smoking personally I dont think its as harmful!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

And what research is this on? AFAIK eliquid contains;

- pharmaceutical grade nicotine

- Flavoring

The only thing I see that is remotely harmful is the Nicotine, but just about as harmful as caffeine is. Apart from being highly addictive it also causes a slight elevation of the heart rate amongst other things

Compare that to actual smoking personally I dont think its as harmful!

There are several problems with this statement.

?pharmaceutical grade nicotine (made cheaply in a Chinese factory) is still nicotine

Nicotine is a Neuro toxic poison used in the past as an insecticide and Can kill an adult with a dose as low as 50-80mg (40+ cigerettes) the neuro toxic effects causing You to pass out seize and Lose autonomic control.

Caffeine on the other hand is a stimulant which will increase heart rate cause anxiety etc etc however it is very hard to consume enough to kill you unless you take it in a concentrated tablet form and then death usually only occurs when the heart can't cope and goes into v-fib following Vt and has nothing to do with the toxicity of the drug, if the heart can cope you keep upping the amount in your system untill your kidneys can no longer excrete the drug usually needing some sort of dialysis

Sorry but pharmaceutical grade or not nicotine is very harmful to the body. Would you take arsenic in a low dose every day, it's ok it would be a low enough dose not to kill you but you keep taking arsenic every day several times a day for the rest of your life?

For this reason nicotine patches are better than smoking because you cut out all the chemicals that go into cigerettes however the nicotine is still bad for you which is why you shouldn't use nicotine replacement long term

 

[Freebo]

There are several problems with this statement.

?pharmaceutical grade nicotine (made cheaply in a Chinese factory) is still nicotine

Nicotine is a Neuro toxic poison used in the past as an insecticide and Can kill an adult with a dose as low as 50-80mg (40+ cigerettes) the neuro toxic effects causing You to pass out seize and Lose autonomic control.

Caffeine on the other hand is a stimulant which will increase heart rate cause anxiety etc etc however it is very hard to consume enough to kill you unless you take it in a concentrated tablet form and then death usually only occurs when the heart can't cope and goes into v-fib following Vt and has nothing to do with the toxicity of the drug, if the heart can cope you keep upping the amount in your system untill your kidneys can no longer excrete the drug usually needing some sort of dialysis

Sorry but pharmaceutical grade or not nicotine is very harmful to the body. Would you take arsenic in a low dose every day, it's ok it would be a low enough dose not to kill you but you keep taking arsenic every day several times a day for the rest of your life?

For this reason nicotine patches are better than smoking because you cut out all the chemicals that go into cigerettes however the nicotine is still bad for you which is why you shouldn't use nicotine replacement long term

Yes I agree. But do you not agree it is safer than smoking a cigarette? As you say cutting out the crap and using just nicotine.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Yes I agree. But do you not agree it is safer than smoking a cigarette? As you say cutting out the crap and using just nicotine.

I would say its safer in the same way that getting you mate to stand 40 feet a way and shoot at you with hand gun is safer than holding the same gun to your head and pulling the trigger. It's that sort of level of comparison.

We take medicines every day made by drug companies yet give little thought to the long term problems of doing so.

As a quick example injectable insulin has been keeping type 1 diabetics alive since it's discovery in 1922 yet it's well known that this same drug destroys the veins and arteries leading to all sorts health problems in later life.

So why take something that has no medicinal benefit but has such huge implications ?

 

[Honeymonster]

That experiment is old old news and if you do a bit more research you'll find much more useful and valid information. It's known this was a temporary effect due to the individuals not being used to the vapour.

Everyone who smokes ecigs should (and probably does) know it's not good for you. It's still better for you than tobacco until proven otherwise.

Interestingly "real" cigarettes contain Arsenic...

My old man just had a heart attack and since they have put 3 stents in his heart. He has been told the carbon monoxide in a single cigarette could kill him by causing a clot (he's smoked for 30 odd years). There is no carbon monoxide in an ecig...

That's not to say we are encouraging him to smoke anything and hopefully he'll give up all together.

Anyway from first hand experience I can tell you I feel better since stopping tobbaco and smoking ecigs. Finally I have also started to smoke/vape less and cut my nicotine levels.

It's very easy to start a thread from some article you read on the net...
There are just as many pro ecig articles by doctors, lung specialists and professionals.

It means much more to hear it from some one who's actually experienced the pros and cons along with some real scientific evidence. Unfortunately there still is very little scientific evidence. Most of the health warnings are about the dangers of the batteries causing a fire or children drinking the juice due to the fruity flavours. This is no different to leaving many other dangerous chemicals in reach of children and the batteries in mobile phones and many other devices use the same volatile lithium technology.

By the way here's a Chinese Ecig Factory:



Really there is a lot more to this than the few lines from the op's article.

Having done a fair bit of research I'll take my chances for the time being thanks...

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Really there is a lot more to this than the few lines from the op's article.

Having done a fair bit of research I have yet to find any peer reviewed research that claims in anyway that ecigerettes are 'good for you' please post links to Pro ecig articles by doctors ? I suspect all these articles claim is that ecigs are better than burning tobacco cigerettes, but then no one is disputing that.

Having worked in cardiac medicine I can tell you that 1 cigerette could cause a dangerous clot it's not really anything to do with carbon monoxide. but the tobacco it's its self will quicken heart rate, constrict blood vessels including those around the heart. One ecig could just as easily kill him at worst or land him with a trip into cardiac surgery for a multiple bypass operation.

The initial point of the thread is to state there is little evidence but there is a growing wealth of evidence that all points to ecigs being bad for you, maybe not as bad as real cigerettes but still bad for you

 

[Honeymonster]

Having done a fair bit of research I have yet to find any peer reviewed research that claims in anyway that ecigerettes are 'good for you' please post links to Pro ecig articles by doctors ? I suspect all these articles claim is that ecigs are better than burning tobacco cigerettes, but then no one is disputing that.

I've never ever seen anyone claim they were good for you just a healthier alternative. Lesser of two evils if you like.

Having worked in cardiac medicine I can tell you that 1 cigerette could cause a dangerous clot it's not really anything to do with carbon monoxide. but the tobacco it's its self will quicken heart rate, constrict blood vessels including those around the heart. One ecig could just as easily kill him at worst or land him with a trip into cardiac surgery for a multiple bypass operation.

I'm sure he'll consult his surgeon/practitioner if he decides to smoke/vape anything. He certainly won't be relying on any information from the internet...

The initial point of the thread is to state there is little evidence but there is a growing wealth of evidence that all points to ecigs being bad for you, maybe not as bad as real cigerettes but still bad for you

There's an article linked to the post you made saying egg yolks are worse for you than ciggarettes. Seems like a reliable source of information... If I believed half of what I read on the internet I'd never leave my house.

Ecigs are not good for you, just the lesser of 2 evils. The problem is if people read threads like this they may stick to tobacco...

Yes giving up is the the best option, NO DOUBT!!

But if ecigs are better than tobacco, which as far as we know is the case. Best not try and put people off them as a healthier alternative to tobacco.

In summary, I have only seen ecigs advertised to smokers, I have never seen a claim they are good for you, they are more than likely better than tobacco, nothing is better than giving up.

And finally, apparantly avoid egg yokes...

http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/new-study-suggests-eggs-bad-smoking-094900154.html

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I've never ever seen anyone claim they were good for you just a healthier alternative. Lesser of two evils if you like.



And finally, apparantly avoid egg yokes...

http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/new-study-suggests-eggs-bad-smoking-094900154.html

Never heard the expression better the devil you know? Ecig have no evidence in the effectiveness of quitting smoking, they're not advocated in smoking cessation and there isn't enough evidence to know what the long term effects of ecig use is. So in all honesty we can't say that they are the less of two evils only that they contain less of the chemicals of tobacco cigerettes.

Anyone who wants to quit smoking should seek the advice of smoking cessation services, which in the UK are excellent !

As for eggs being bad for you, are you not a child of the 80s this was big news 30 years ago! It's not new. Eggs are full of cholesterol which builds in the arteries leading to atherosclerosis. How do you not know this?

 

[Honeymonster]

Never heard the expression better the devil you know? Ecig have no evidence in the effectiveness of quitting smoking, they're not advocated in smoking cessation and there isn't enough evidence to know what the long term effects of ecig use is. So in all honesty we can't say that they are the less of two evils only that they contain less of the chemicals of tobacco cigerettes.

Ecigs have only a few of the many proven dangerous chemicals in cigarettes go figure...

Anyone who wants to quit smoking should seek the advice of smoking cessation services, which in the UK are excellent !

Are you serious??? The chemicals in the inhalers and some injections are the same as ecigs, just a different method of administration. All the people I know who have tried patches said it made them feel like death and the doses were way too strong. Once again, have you smoked? have you tried any of these devices, have you tried giving up.

As for eggs being bad for you, are you not a child of the 80s this was big news 30 years ago! It's not new. Eggs are full of cholesterol which builds in the arteries leading to atherosclerosis. How do you not know this?

I was born in the 80's and I hate eggs. Your website, your links so I guess all the news on it is old...

Like I said at the start that experiment is ancient.