Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[MarcoWuerttemberger]

@MarcoWuerttemberger
When your mechanic has sourced DPF, injectors etc, can you share the DPF part number?

Thanks

sure, will do

 

[Fredastaire]

@Redeagle thanks for spotting our long running post. You need to read through all pages from start to finish to follow the entire story. Together we know pretty exactly what's going on. It's caused by certainly errors in the factory software which caused high temperatures to burn the insides of the DPF on regen, further damage can wreck injectors, the passage of soot through a damaged/ cracked DPF then passes through the LP EGR cooler until it blocks it's internal filter.
.
Do you have a twin EGR non adblue Ducato? They were made late 2016 thro late 2018. Our problem in this 69 page post only applies to this model. It's like no model made before or after.

 

[Fredastaire]

@BoultsG take note that the part numbers for the 130 DPF is different to a 150/180 DPF, I believe it's to do with the turbo having variable vane geometry on the 150/180.

 

[BoultsG]

@BoultsG take note that the part numbers for the 130 DPF is different to a 150/180 DPF, I believe it's to do with the turbo having variable vane geometry on the 150/180.

@Fredastaire, thanks for the note

 

[BoultsG]

@Fredastaire, If you can point me to the right cables and location, I am happy to give your resistor option a go.

 

[MarcoWuerttemberger]

@theoneandonly
Here are my Data from MES...i used the Wide Monitoring Template from your Guide!
I can't thank you enough and i would really appreciate If you can check my provided Data from MES
Software Version ist 28
131HP Fiat Ducato Twin EGR

Best Wishes and Greetings
Marco

 

[theoneandonly]

@theoneandonly
Here are my Data from MES...i used the Wide Monitoring Template from your Guide!
I can't thank you enough and i would really appreciate If you can check my provided Data from MES
Software Version ist 28
131HP Fiat Ducato Twin EGR

Best Wishes and Greetings
Marco

The engine got upto temp.The LPEGR cooler has awefully low results this would concern me that engine wasnt upto temp, but not the case. The valve is mostly closed. the cooler is blocked, the LPEGR valve is certainly not doing its job.
Next observation the precat temp has 2 high spikes which coincide with a spell of HPEGR closed. The hpegr graph is not typical of good engine. Initialy it shows movements so not totaly stuck, its worth taking off and cleaning with everything else that needs doing.

 

[MarcoWuerttemberger]

The engine got upto temp.The LPEGR cooler has awefully low results this would concern me that engine wasnt upto temp, but not the case. The valve is mostly closed. the cooler is blocked, the LPEGR valve is certainly not doing its job.
Next observation the precat temp has 2 high spikes which coincide with a spell of HPEGR closed. The hpegr graph is not typical of good engine. Initialy it shows movements so not totaly stuck, its worth taking off and cleaning with everything else that needs doing.


View attachment 460101
View attachment 460100
View attachment 460099

Thank you so much for your time, lookin at the data and analysing it.
Then it's Time to change anything. Was hopin i can do this in Summer because in March i have to take my daughter to Rotterdam...but live choose the way...
thanks again

Best Wishes
Marco

 

[Fredastaire]

@BoultsG I'll take a photo. My thoughts are to undo the harness wrapping for a length to reach the actual wires. For initial testing I've got some 100% brass dressmakers pins. I'm thinking to bend the wire a little so I can push in the pin lengthways through the pvc insulation and into the conductor strands. Then solder my extension wire to a pinhead. This way I won't be either cutting through a wire or major stripping.
Adding the resistor for trial purposes in the van cab should be a comfortable job whilst watching the laptop screen MES EGR opening values.
Then we can try different resistor values.
.
In the event that my idea works then we work out how to install permanently, tidily and reliable.

 

[deejays]

@BoultsG I'll take a photo. My thoughts are to undo the harness wrapping for a length to reach the actual wires. For initial testing I've got some 100% brass dressmakers pins. I'm thinking to bend the wire a little so I can push in the pin lengthways through the pvc insulation and into the conductor strands. Then solder my extension wire to a pinhead. This way I won't be either cutting through a wire or major stripping.
Adding the resistor for trial purposes in the van cab should be a comfortable job whilst watching the laptop screen MES EGR opening values.
Then we can try different resistor values.
.
In the event that my idea works then we work out how to install permanently, tidily and reliable.

Hi @Fredastaire May I throw in my 2 cents worth (maybe 2 pennórth for some)? I would think to begin with, not un-tape and tap into the wiring loom, but to identify precisely the two pins on the correct connector on the ECU (also confirm the colour code matches that specified). Then if you wish to proceed, back-probe the connector pins to carry out your test process. I would be guessing here, but it is likely that pin 32 would have something like a 1k 0hm pull-up resistor to +5V. Also, keeping any unshielded wiring as short as possible to prevent any possibility of induced stray pickup.

 

[nao80262939]

I have owned a 2017 Euro 6 Ducato for two years. A year ago, the engine check light came on while I was driving, and when I checked it with OBD2, the code P0401-61 was detected. I think the mileage at that time was about 25,000 km. Then, when I tried to go uphill, the codes P0236 and P0238 came out, and the engine speed did not increase. For the time being, I cleared the error codes with OBD2 and drove for a while, but after driving about 2,000 km, the P0401-61 code appeared again. I had it checked at a repair shop, but the cause was not clear, and the mechanic recommended that I clean the EGR and replace the turbo sensor for the time being. However, a few months later, the P0401-61 code appeared again. The mechanic said that the only thing I could do was to replace the EGR, but as people have said in this forum, even if I replace the EGR without knowing the cause, the error may occur again, so I did not replace it. I've managed to get to 45,000 km, but I still don't have a solution. However, I discovered a way to drive that doesn't cause errors, so I'm now driving that way. That way, I don't let the engine speed exceed 2500 RPM. Until then, I would raise the engine speed to about 3000 RPM when starting and shifting gears, but since I started keeping it below 2500 RPM, the check lamp has not come on. I don't know why, but I think this is the best way. I hope they can find a clear cause for P0401-61, P0402, etc.

 

[Serrow225]

I have owned a 2017 Euro 6 Ducato for two years. A year ago, the engine check light came on while I was driving, and when I checked it with OBD2, the code P0401-61 was detected. I think the mileage at that time was about 25,000 km. Then, when I tried to go uphill, the codes P0236 and P0238 came out, and the engine speed did not increase. For the time being, I cleared the error codes with OBD2 and drove for a while, but after driving about 2,000 km, the P0401-61 code appeared again. I had it checked at a repair shop, but the cause was not clear, and the mechanic recommended that I clean the EGR and replace the turbo sensor for the time being. However, a few months later, the P0401-61 code appeared again. The mechanic said that the only thing I could do was to replace the EGR, but as people have said in this forum, even if I replace the EGR without knowing the cause, the error may occur again, so I did not replace it. I've managed to get to 45,000 km, but I still don't have a solution. However, I discovered a way to drive that doesn't cause errors, so I'm now driving that way. That way, I don't let the engine speed exceed 2500 RPM. Until then, I would raise the engine speed to about 3000 RPM when starting and shifting gears, but since I started keeping it below 2500 RPM, the check lamp has not come on. I don't know why, but I think this is the best way. I hope they can find a clear cause for P0401-61, P0402, etc.

Hi
Welcome to the forum,as I was told when I 1st posted on here you must go to start and read it all ,you will then understand what's happening with your van .

 

[Redeagle]

I have owned a 2017 Euro 6 Ducato for two years. A year ago, the engine check light came on while I was driving, and when I checked it with OBD2, the code P0401-61 was detected. I think the mileage at that time was about 25,000 km. Then, when I tried to go uphill, the codes P0236 and P0238 came out, and the engine speed did not increase. For the time being, I cleared the error codes with OBD2 and drove for a while, but after driving about 2,000 km, the P0401-61 code appeared again. I had it checked at a repair shop, but the cause was not clear, and the mechanic recommended that I clean the EGR and replace the turbo sensor for the time being. However, a few months later, the P0401-61 code appeared again. The mechanic said that the only thing I could do was to replace the EGR, but as people have said in this forum, even if I replace the EGR without knowing the cause, the error may occur again, so I did not replace it. I've managed to get to 45,000 km, but I still don't have a solution. However, I discovered a way to drive that doesn't cause errors, so I'm now driving that way. That way, I don't let the engine speed exceed 2500 RPM. Until then, I would raise the engine speed to about 3000 RPM when starting and shifting gears, but since I started keeping it below 2500 RPM, the check lamp has not come on. I don't know why, but I think this is the best way. I hope they can find a clear cause for P0401-61, P0402, etc.

And I had same issue with limp mode is it turbo then change the turbo pressure Converter the one with the two or 3 small pipes coming off it, and egr sorry previous comment was incorrect as my brain went down wrong road of thoughts lol.
that solved my issue hope that helps

 

[theoneandonly]

I have owned a 2017 Euro 6 Ducato for two years. A year ago, the engine check light came on while I was driving, and when I checked it with OBD2, the code P0401-61 was detected. I think the mileage at that time was about 25,000 km. Then, when I tried to go uphill, the codes P0236 and P0238 came out, and the engine speed did not increase. For the time being, I cleared the error codes with OBD2 and drove for a while, but after driving about 2,000 km, the P0401-61 code appeared again. I had it checked at a repair shop, but the cause was not clear, and the mechanic recommended that I clean the EGR and replace the turbo sensor for the time being. However, a few months later, the P0401-61 code appeared again. The mechanic said that the only thing I could do was to replace the EGR, but as people have said in this forum, even if I replace the EGR without knowing the cause, the error may occur again, so I did not replace it. I've managed to get to 45,000 km, but I still don't have a solution. However, I discovered a way to drive that doesn't cause errors, so I'm now driving that way. That way, I don't let the engine speed exceed 2500 RPM. Until then, I would raise the engine speed to about 3000 RPM when starting and shifting gears, but since I started keeping it below 2500 RPM, the check lamp has not come on. I don't know why, but I think this is the best way. I hope they can find a clear cause for P0401-61, P0402, etc.

I can agree with @Serrow225 that you would benefit from reading the entire thread but i wrote the 3 guides bellow to reduce the reading and i hope to make it easier to understand.
The most important thing to remember about error codes is singly they may point to a specific sensor or issue , but as a group or a multiple selection of a group (eg the 4 in thread title or P0401 & P0236) they point to something entirely different and you cant extract the P0236 and solve that issue.

Twin EGR Problem

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

How does a twin egr engine work

The following is a description of a twin egr engine edited from https://mechcontent.com/ and other sources It is not a detailed examination of the Fiat engine, if theres anything obviously wrong please advise. The internal combustion engine uses...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[Mike D Halliday]

No, i did not show them or send it to them. I did give them the service bulletin number so they may look it up, they may not. Still waiting to hear from the second garage as to whether they can deal with the warranty company. Nothing is ever easy!!!

Well, it has been a while, but I finally have a solution to our engine problems.

Since October 2024 I have had a complaint in with the finance company, finance broker and dealership. After many to and fro eMails and phone calls, I logged a complaint with the finance ombudsman.

Towards the end of December, I got a call from the finance broker informing me that I should take the van to one of their recommended garages in the local (ish) area. As we were in Wales at the time, we had to make our way back to Cheshire over the course of 2 weeks as we had booked various site stays. 3 weeks ago, we dropped the van off at the garage and gave them 2 weeks to fix it.

After extensive diagnostics by the garage their conclusion was that it is the DPF that is cracked and faulty and needs replacing. The dealer had been contacted and informed that because the fault was present when we bought the van, they would have to pay for the replacement (Result!). When I asked the broker how much the part was I was informed that it would be £3200 inc Vat shipped from Germany in 48 hours. (How true this was I do not know, but the final bill is huge!)

Glad I didn't have to pay for that.

We could not get the van back due to the engine being removed for inspection so we had to pay for 2 different Air BnBs and a hotel while the repair took place. We had to give them an extra week to fit and test the repair, so I got a 1 month payment break from the finance company to cover the cost of the accommodation!

Anyway, on Monday this week we picked up the van from the garage and took her for a 90 mile trip to a new site. She felt like a new van.

She has never driven this well since we have had her, so I am well happy. No longer sounding like a dying tractor and smooth as silk.

I am not signing the repair off until we have moved to another site on Sunday and will monitor for the next few journies, but I think, after 16 months of anxiety, wasted money on wrong fixes and feeling like we were being ignored, we have finally got a van that is worth the money we paid for her.

Total repair bill this time £4657.70 all paid for by the dealer and finance company. 16 Hours of labour to drop, inspect and re-fit the engine and replacement DPF.

It is a big win for me as a consumer as this shows all my documents and proof of a breach in the sale of goods act have been recognised as valid!

Pictures included here show the piece of the DPF that they left me that was found detached from the main filter when inspecting, incorrect turbo pressure solenoid that was originally fitted, the new one that has now been fitted and the sooty exhaust that we had.

So ... In our case, EML errors P0402, P0401 and P0238 were, as previous comments predicted, a cracked DPF.

Hopefully this is the last of our troubles, but I wont really know until I have done a few hundred miles!

Mike.

 

[Fredastaire]

Wow , that's a fantastic end result.
It's clear now having been the originator of this 69 page post that there are many of our vans doing up to 300k miles with no problems, so, you now have an opportunity to follow in their footsteps.
I'm certainly wondering if in two years time I ought to go for a new DPF. I've only just had my cooler changed again so at least I have a current clear run before it creeps back again.
Did you get a copy receipt from which you could advise of part numbers for the new items?

 

[theoneandonly]

Yes Mike a good result, well done for hanging on in there. Did they replace the LPEGR cooler as well.
I would also like to see the parts list/invoice. (cover or remove your VIN number (tortology i know)
I would suggest you clean the exhaust as if it stays clean you will have confidence in the repair. If it doesnt its still residual soot being moved by exhaust gases.

 

[Mike D Halliday]

Wow , that's a fantastic end result.
It's clear now having been the originator of this 69 page post that there are many of our vans doing up to 300k miles with no problems, so, you now have an opportunity to follow in their footsteps.
I'm certainly wondering if in two years time I ought to go for a new DPF. I've only just had my cooler changed again so at least I have a current clear run before it creeps back again.
Did you get a copy receipt from which you could advise of part numbers for the new items

I think it was a newbie filling in the invoice details as it's down as a DPR and not a DPF.

There is however a part number.

1379587080

Hopefully, this is correct and genuine fiat?

Have added the part number of the incorrectly factory fitted boost solenoid too as a friend of ours with a newer van has the same one fitted, with no issue. If I can get the number of the proper one that is fitted now, I will add it at a later date.

 

[Mike D Halliday]

Yes Mike a good result, well done for hanging on in there. Did they replace the LPEGR cooler as well.
I would also like to see the parts list/invoice. (cover or remove your VIN number (tortology i know)
I would suggest you clean the exhaust as if it stays clean you will have confidence in the repair. If it doesnt its still residual soot being moved by exhaust gases.

I have cleaned the exhaust, but only after running the 90 miles or so to site. When I get some time at weekend I am going to wash the whole van and clean the exhaust properly to make it all shiny. I should then be able to tell how much soot is being thrown out. I am hoping for minimal.

More results posted after a couple of hundred miles of running, which should be in the next few weeks as we are due for a journey back to Cheshire and beyond soon.

 

[MarcoWuerttemberger]

On Monday my Car will go to the Mechanic.
I let them change the DPF, Injectors and the LPEGR Cooler. They will also clean the HPEGR.
Is the anything else they should change?
And, as my Ducato is on Fiat Software V28, is it better to contact a Fiat Dealer and make the Update to V31 after this whole process?
Costs on Monday will be around between 10k Euro and 11k Euro....a terrible amount of money