Technical Ducato 290 (2015) - DPF issue

[Trackman]

Hi all,

Have a DPF issue with Ducato 290 from 2015 with respectable mileage (454000km).
Bought vehicle new, serviced it regularly (oil, brakes, clutch, etc)
Had DPF cleaned at 250000km and replaced/renewed the DPF (part no. EEC FI6063T) at around 445000km, following P2002 fault code.
MIL stayed on after DPF replacement, so just bought MES to get acces to ECU and indicate DPF change.

Problem: cannot change DPF in MES nor execute a forged regeneration. See attached screenshots.
Can anybody enlighten me on reason for this ? Maybe PDF differential pressure sensor reading too high at 25mbar at 800 revs ?)

Thanks in advance for feedback !

 

[Conny J]

Hello! Check first that the diffrence pressare is zero if you not run the motor, only ingnition on. If not adjust.
its common that the sensor fail on elder cars, not only Fiat. fills with water. 400% is not possible, gives generic failure…
hope you get som help

 

[Trackman]

Thanks for valuable suggestion!
I just checked, see attached MES screenshot.
Sensor seems OK, as indicated pressure drops to 0 mbar when I stop the engine.

 

[theoneandonly]

if the DPF was blocked you would get much higher values from the DPF differential pressure sensor 300mbar would not be unexpected. Water ingress/ condensation can be a problem, blow out the tubes if possible.

DPF Differential Pressure sensor Diagnosis with MES

How to diagnose a problem the DPF Differential Pressure sensor and its impact on the DPF. known in mes parameter list as Differential Pressure Sensor. These sensors are prone to any debris or condensation in the exhaust, which can cause the...

www.fiatforum.com

have a read.
The DPF info seems wrong, the DPF is not recognised by the ECU, ist it correct youve done 9,000 km since the new DPF. If youve not added the DPF in software and used/blocked the DPF trying it now may fail since it may be doing some simple checks beforehand and your engine is failing that test. (conjecture/ guessing only). If the differential pressure sensor hasn't worked for 9000km i'm not surprised you have a blocked DPF.
First check out the differential pressure sensor with a live run, save data to a csv file and post here.
A live run of the engine, pre-cat, dpf, post dpf temperatures would also help. if it is a 290 twin egr ad in the LPEGR temperature.

 

[Trackman]

Find attached DPF sensor values at a live run, recorded are vehicle speed, engine revs vs dpf sensor pressure.
Any anomalities ?

 

[theoneandonly]

From the guide
What is an acceptable figure for DPF Differential Pressure (measured in mbar)? The answer is as little as possible. But if it flatlines at zero its dead.
Adding back pressure will make the engine work harder, and use more fuel to deliver the same power.

<20 Brilliant DPF causing almost no restriction
20-99 Good result and typical of a DPF in good working order
100-250 DPF causing up to 0.25 BAR of pressure – needs investigation
250-500 Serious restriction probably not allowing car to do a Forced Regen
500-1000 Performance loss very marked at this level
>1000 Car can’t pull the proverbial skin off a rice pudding. All your boost is stuck in the DPF
@Trackman data

So values upto 218mbar not a good example. indicative of a problem. In the other example ive seen at these levels the DPF was blocked .
from above
250-500 Serious restriction probably not allowing car to do a Forced Regen
I think you need to thouroughly clean the DPF. then try adding the new DPF to the ECU.

 

[Trackman]

From the guide
What is an acceptable figure for DPF Differential Pressure (measured in mbar)? The answer is as little as possible. But if it flatlines at zero its dead.
Adding back pressure will make the engine work harder, and use more fuel to deliver the same power.

<20 Brilliant DPF causing almost no restriction
20-99 Good result and typical of a DPF in good working order
100-250 DPF causing up to 0.25 BAR of pressure – needs investigation
250-500 Serious restriction probably not allowing car to do a Forced Regen
500-1000 Performance loss very marked at this level
>1000 Car can’t pull the proverbial skin off a rice pudding. All your boost is stuck in the DPF
@Trackman data
View attachment 419429

View attachment 419430
So values upto 218mbar not a good example. indicative of a problem. In the other example ive seen at these levels the DPF was blocked .
from above
250-500 Serious restriction probably not allowing car to do a Forced Regen
I think you need to thouroughly clean the DPF. then try adding the new DPF to the ECU.

 

[Trackman]

km)@theoneandonly: Thanks for your analysis.
I can dismount the DPF filter and have it cleaned, even if it has been fitted only months (and ca 9000km)
My concern is whether I will be able to reset it in MES, eg indicate that a new/cleaned filter is fitted.
Currently this option is blocked, I assume because ECU thinks filter is clogged.
The lower differential pressures might resolve this blockage, but "particulate filter clogging %" might still indicate 400%.
This might obstruct MES indicating that new/cleaned filter is being fitted ?

 

[theoneandonly]

when you try to add the new DPF note there are very specific NOTES to be carried out. Ive not done it myself but it looks as if a forced regen is one of the things it does. I was amazed at the beware of burnt grass instruction.
There looks like 2 actions that may be required
Particle filter replacement
Pre-catalyser replacement
are Cat and DPF one box?

 

[firepete999]

From the guide
What is an acceptable figure for DPF Differential Pressure (measured in mbar)? The answer is as little as possible. But if it flatlines at zero its dead.
Adding back pressure will make the engine work harder, and use more fuel to deliver the same power.

<20 Brilliant DPF causing almost no restriction
20-99 Good result and typical of a DPF in good working order
100-250 DPF causing up to 0.25 BAR of pressure – needs investigation
250-500 Serious restriction probably not allowing car to do a Forced Regen
500-1000 Performance loss very marked at this level
>1000 Car can’t pull the proverbial skin off a rice pudding. All your boost is stuck in the DPF
@Trackman data
View attachment 419429

View attachment 419430
So values upto 218mbar not a good example. indicative of a problem. In the other example ive seen at these levels the DPF was blocked .
from above
250-500 Serious restriction probably not allowing car to do a Forced Regen
I think you need to thouroughly clean the DPF. then try adding the new DPF to the ECU.

my van went into limp mode last weekend had to drive 300 miles towing my car trailer home . i have purchased the licence for the software and it showed my sensor seemed faulty reading 365 mbar i unplugged it and it rad the same .was expecting a zero reading . so i purchased another sensor on line but when i fitted it it showed 996mbars straight away . i tried blowing air down the pipes but it dont move. the old one will move but never drops below 365 mbar. have i been unlucky and purchased a duff sensor or am i doing something wrong .

 

[theoneandonly]

my van went into limp mode last weekend had to drive 300 miles towing my car trailer home . i have purchased the licence for the software and it showed my sensor seemed faulty reading 365 mbar i unplugged it and it rad the same .was expecting a zero reading . so i purchased another sensor on line but when i fitted it it showed 996mbars straight away . i tried blowing air down the pipes but it dont move. the old one will move but never drops below 365 mbar. have i been unlucky and purchased a duff sensor or am i doing something wrong .

You could have blocked pipes. it is not unknown for condensation to bugger things up.
select a sensor add a freestanding pipe to one orrifice leave other open read the values with Mes then blow down the pipe then suck, do you get any values at all, repeat with other sensor. try blowing through both pipes (ones on van) to try to clear any blockage (or even use a vacuum bleeding system to suck on each pipe.

 

[firepete999]

You could have blocked pipes. it is not unknown for condensation to bugger things up.
select a sensor add a freestanding pipe to one orrifice leave other open read the values with Mes then blow down the pipe then suck, do you get any values at all, repeat with other sensor. try blowing through both pipes (ones on van) to try to clear any blockage (or even use a vacuum bleeding system to suck on each pipe.

yes i did that and the new one did not move and stayed at 995 mbars the old one started at 365mbar and would move to max 995mbar and zero if i put pressure on the other side but would return to 365mbar on mes

 

[theoneandonly]

yes i did that and the new one did not move and stayed at 995 mbars the old one started at 365mbar and would move to max 995mbar and zero if i put pressure on the other side but would return to 365mbar on mes

Sounds as if the new one is fubared. A deAd parrot. Get sensor replaced.
What engine and year is it?
Try a graph run F5 on mes the F10 and create a csv file with at least rpm as well as sensor data post csv here and i will look at it later when i get home. A 10 min blast should be enough.

 

[firepete999]

Sounds as if the new one is fubared. A deAd parrot. Get sensor replaced.
What engine and year is it?
Try a graph run F5 on mes the F10 and create a csv file with at least rpm as well as sensor data post csv here and i will look at it later when i get home. A 10 min blast should be enough.

year is 2012 there no point running a trend it does not move with new sensor and old one is all over the place the light will come up after seconds .im trying to locate another sensor quickly as i need the van for towing next friday .thanks for reply

 

[firepete999]

year is 2012 there no point running a trend it does not move with new sensor and old one is all over the place the light will come up after seconds .im trying to locate another sensor quickly as i need the van for towing next friday .thanks for reply

all sorted now new sensor arrived today and read zero not connected. connected back up the pipes and reads 8mbar on idle and 58 mbar at 3000rpm
lights out and turbo working

 

[theoneandonly]

all sorted now new sensor arrived today and read zero not connected. connected back up the pipes and reads 8mbar on idle and 58 mbar at 3000rpm
lights out and turbo working

Thanks for letting us know its sorted and how sollved.