Technical Ducato 230 1999 problems!!! Long story

[ducato230pb]

Hello Everyone on Fiat Frorums.

Id like to start by saying Im no mechanic.

My story happens a few weeks ago. I was driving along nicely in my well maintained 2.8 idtd Ducato I had to slow down and suddenly the van stalls right in the middle of a roundabout and would not start again the only light that was lit was the battery light when I took the key out the battery light would dim and a relay under the glovebox was rapidly triggering key back in and turned to accessories and the relay stopped fireing. A hour later (and a lot of rage from fellow road users) the roadside assistance arrived, he seen what was happening and said it was probably a problem with my ignition he gave me a jump start he had to turn the voltage up above normal then she started again.

The battery shouldnt of been the problem as this was only a fortnight old.

Once back home I looked up some info online and a lot pointed to faulty ignition switch. So I ordered a complete new ignition and once i Magivered it in place i took it the van for a test run I drove 10 mile round town and left the motor running for a further 30 mins no problems at all. fixed! or so I thought! the next day it was back to not starting and 10 mins later started again. I made it home and started to look further I tested the + and - to the motor, fuel pump, start motor and the alternator, all good. The alternator put out 14.6v.

I then brought the van to the garage. Just made it to the gates before stalling again, this time also driving slowly but in reverse. He checked things out and said everything was looking fine and he took it for a test drive and 500m further it stalled again and started againa minuite later. He didnt charge me for his time he said i can bring him and his employees some cakes from the bakery and he towed me back home.

just before the van stalls the dash lights flicker and and the water in fuel light comes on and you can hear a relay switching in the last second behind the glovebox.
I got access to the relay panel and one relay was a bit loose i have now secured it in to position and am hopeing that this could be the problem sorted out but i dont trust it enough to go back out on the open road. Could a faulty relay be the cause of all my problems? does any one know what the function of this relay is?

I have included some photos of the relay in question, the relayboard and ignition

has anyone any thoughts understanding or previous experiences that could help me? it would be greatly appriceated

Kind Regards Kevin

 

[porta]

Short answer is yes…
But look for a cause to set your mind at rest…maybe just a relay, maybe water ingress through screen (have had experience of this) onto fusebox/relay bank or maybe a short on ignition/service side
Without standing in front of it with an AVO meter, it’s very hard to diagnose

 

[ducato230pb]

Thanks for your reply porta

 

[porta]

Thanks for your reply porta

No worries

 

[Communicator]

After about 75 years of playing, and working with relays in different disciplines, I am always sceptical when relays are blamed. Yes relays can go faulty with open circuit coils or with contact problems, with the latter possibly due to overloading. In my experience such instances are rare. I can only remember one mention on this forum of a relay change directly solving the problem, and this was for a heater fan, which is a considerable load if the fuse rating is any indicator. Much more often it is the connections at the relay or elsewhere that are the problem. A clicking relay will be a symptom rather than the cause, and indicate a poor connection elsewhere.

One thing that comes to mind with the 2.8 idTD which has mechanical fuel injection, so no is the fuel cut off solenoid releasing due to low voltage. Another possibility is the LP (Low Pressure) fuel pump in the tank, but I am not certain that the x230 with the 2.8idTD has this. If fitted I would expect it to be switched via a relay

This leads to the statement that the alternator was delivering 14.6V, which is slightly above the generally accepted maximum of 14.4V for charging FLA (Flooded Lead Acid) batteries).

Where was the 14.6V measured? A measurement of charging voltage must be taken directly across the battery terminal posts.

Has the condition of the chassis earthing point, which is below the battery and in front of the RH engine mounting, been checked for signs of corrosion? Are the terminations at the battery in good condition? If the connectors are of the type that use screws to clamp the conductor, they are probably not OEM, and may indicate previous problems. ( I remember a thread some years ago, with similar problems, where the OP eventually spotted smoke coming from the non OEM battery negative clamp. The vehicle under discussion at that time, started OK, but cut out at random.)

I am attaching some pictures, which while being of my own x244, I believe will be relevant to the x230.

 

[ducato230pb]

Thanks for your reply Communicator.

all the ground cables seem to be in good condition. the alternator charges at 14.5 the .6 was a typo.

I have done a bit more troubleshooting and found loose cables at the back of the second from left relay in the top row. i have now secured these 2 orange cables and the van seems to have stopped stalling. but it hasnt sorted all the problems...

still when I clutch the temp hand goes up and the water in fuel light shows relesae the clutch and it goes back to normal. i must add that this only happens when the van is in motion (see video).

all the problems are now sorted. the new battery was indeed the problem i put the old battery in and it just works like it should no flickering lights and no stalling. so it was a combination of problems. hope it stays like this.

again thank you Porta and Communicator for your advice

 

[Communicator]

From an inspection of available wiring diagrams, the combination of orange wiring, and a green relay socket, suggest that the function of the relay is to control the heater fan. The heater fan draws a considerable current while in use, and poor connections could overheat, Time well spent, even if not directly relevant to the original problem.