Technical Ducato 2017 2.3 Euro 6 problems EGR, DPF P0401-61 help please

[Fredastaire]

Our Ducato 2.3 comfortmatic Campervan (with 24k miles only) is throwing intermittent fault P0401-61 which shows as High Pressure EGR valve blocked. I've had discussions with PC Vehicle Movements (thanks Paul), and on his recommendation have booked the van in with the dealer to check for factory software updates and any recalls. I have bought Multiecuscan, (thats where fault code is from) and it also shows DPF 52% full. Yesterday I took all the front panels off to find the front top EGR, ive inspected the inside of the air hose from turbo, its spotless, ive looked inside at the half domed insert from the EGR, its just light grey / spotless. Ive 50 years of repairing and rebuilding cars so Im quite happy about learning and sorting this problem and are wary of dealers hourly costs for something I can do personally.
Please can anybody ( Possibly whine0 ?) help and steer me in the right direction to solve the problems and does DPF 52% matter?

 

[nigelvan]

Hi Fredastaire,
I'm no expert myself but I learnt quite a lot about diesel engines in the past few months. I have an older van without DPF (diesel particle filter) myself but this is the part in the exhaust that captures soot before it gets blown out the exhaust to meet emission standards.
From what I have seen on Youtube the DPF gets full and needs to burn the soot in the DPF from time to time. If not the DPF gets clogged and is mighty expensive to replace.
The DPF cleaning happens when doing longer runs (if I'm right there is a diesel injector in the DPF that burns fuel in order to burn off the soot). Maybe it can help to do a long drive on the highway to offer the engine an opportunity to start DPF cleaning. The newer vans (EURO5 and up) have an indicator on the dash to show you when the routine is ongoing.
Again, I have little experience but maybe someone with more experience can confirm... just my 2 cents here.

 

[Anthony489]

Hi Fredastaire

You mention "the front top EGR". If you mean the item that sits between the intake air rubber hose and the inlet manifold, that is stricly speaking called the Throttle Body. The true EGR valve sits low down on the flywheel end of the engine between the exhaust manifold (after a cooler) and the inlet manifold. It controls the flow of recirculated exhaust gas. Its pipework is of metal to withstand heat. The EGR valve and its associated cooler can become clogged with carbon from the exhaust gases, but on the Ducato this seems to be a rare occurrence for an engine which is otherwise fault free.

I believe there was a recall for later vehicles due to potential problems with a split EGR pipe, has yours been to a dealer for this issue ?


The Throttle Body does assist with the EGR process by restricting the clean inlet air flow under certain conditions. The partial vacuum thus created helps encourage recirculated exhaust gas flow, however it is a "secondary player" so to speak. Again, apart from early Ducatos this component is generally reliable. The only way it can become dirty internally is from oil vapour via the crankcase breather system, and it would have to be excessively dirty to stop functioning.

 

[Fredastaire]

Hi Anthony489, this question is very specific for the Euro 6.
.
There are two EGRs for Euro 6, one is at the top of the engine as I mentioned, then there is a second EGR hidden at the rear of the engine sandwiched behind the DPF.

This system of using two EGRs is only I understand found of these EURO 6 Ducatos built over an 18 month period before Fiat changed to use Adblue.
.
The front top EGR is small and has its own water jacket, the rear hidden EGR has a long cooler pipe with flue tubes much like a steam loco boiler..
.
I'm well aware that this is a problem engine hence asking for help.

 

[Anthony489]

Hi Fredastaire

It sounds like the later engines have even more complicated emissions control. Thanks for the details.

 

[PC Vehicle Movements]

Our Ducato 2.3 comfortmatic Campervan (with 24k miles only) is throwing intermittent fault P0401-61 which shows as High Pressure EGR valve blocked. I've had discussions with PC Vehicle Movements (thanks Paul), and on his recommendation have booked the van in with the dealer to check for factory software updates and any recalls. I have bought Multiecuscan, (thats where fault code is from) and it also shows DPF 52% full. Yesterday I took all the front panels off to find the front top EGR, ive inspected the inside of the air hose from turbo, its spotless, ive looked inside at the half domed insert from the EGR, its just light grey / spotless. Ive 50 years of repairing and rebuilding cars so Im quite happy about learning and sorting this problem and are wary of dealers hourly costs for something I can do personally.
Please can anybody ( Possibly whine0 ?) help and steer me in the right direction to solve the problems and does DPF 52% matter?

The blockage on mine was the EGR valve cooler it as a fine mesh screen on the inlet that was covered in a thick black sticky film restricting the gas flow its a big job to replace
my local garage replaced it and i kept the old unit to see if it could be cleaned out which i did by soaking it overnight with acid wheel cleaner and then power washed it through
but if your egr valve is clean i doubt you will have this problem sounds more like the egr valve is faulty
you can use the multi scan software on the actuators page to open and close the egr valve or highlight in the live data and take for a drive you will see the actual position its reaching compared to the desired position

regards Paul

 

[Fredastaire]

Hi Paul, I had the fault code again last wednesday. cleared it with a basic FCR which deletes the MIL light yet leaves the fault stored in memory. Weve then been to the coast for the weekend, done circa 300 miles, no re-occurrence. Im now running on expensive diesel and the Millers additive.
Back home ive connected to Mes and looked at both EGR's static, live with engine running and done the cyclic test. Both EGR's follow their actual point to the ecu points so I know that both are running / adjusting. The DPF is now at 54% showing having recycled say 200 miles back. So with the MES I cannot see a fault.
now having done a full visual and looked on Ebay I can see the actual cooler I have installed and see the micromesh filter you described.
The position of the cooler looks diabolical to reach, did your man have to dismantle the power steeering, ie remove it or do you literally hinge it out of the way leaving the hydraulic hoses connected?.
The van is booked in for Weds so we will see if there are any new updates.
I;m somewhat puzzled about that mesh,it looks so fine, I can only guess that It must actually clean when the dpf does a burn.

 

[PC Vehicle Movements]

sorry for the late reply

yes its a full strip down and disconnect the hose's
i would leave it at the moment as i was getting the codes straight away after clearing them but if you do go down this route there is a small O ring for the water cooling Circuit that must replaced
If yours hasn't had the software update the update should sort it out
just for reference my DPF which was replaced is doing regenerations around every 600 miles 90% motorway driving but before all the issues i had and the update it was every 2-300
miles

the only issue i have now is that it needs the Turbo actuator solenoid replacing every 20k no EML light just goes gutless no power change the selonoid and its back to full power they are £48 which is very cheap compared to older models which makes me wonder there is a problem with them hence the price difference

 

[Fredastaire]

Here we are end of year,replaced top EGR and MAP and Turbo solenoid, whilst power is back I'm still having intermittent P0401 -61fault code, Ivr checked the intercooler hoses and vacuum pipes, now looking to change MAF.
Any suggestions welcome

 

[Nickulars]

Here we are end of year,replaced top EGR and MAP and Turbo solenoid, whilst power is back I'm still having intermittent P0401 -61fault code, Ivr checked the intercooler hoses and vacuum pipes, now looking to change MAF.
Any suggestions welcome

How did you get on changing the MAF?

I have exactly the same intermittent fault P0401-61 with a 2017 Ducato I’ve already had both EGR valves replaced, a new throttle body and a new turbo fitted. And after about 1000 miles the fault is back.

I have also just read that the problem could be with the EGR cooler. Is that for the valve located at the back by the DPF filter?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

 

[Geomore]

Hi nickulars, your post reminded me to update my own progress. Having read everything on this forum and spoken to several, I sent the van in to the garage to get the LP EGR replaced, as it's very difficult to access (6-8 hours labour). They inspected the turbo, DPF, checked the EGR valves and injector values and advised everything looked fine (others have reported severe buildup of soot and resulting damage to these components). The cooler they removed didn't seem blocked like others have observed, and I was expecting. However, since the work, No fault codes in 2000 miles, only time will tell if fixed fully.


Note i previously replaced turbo actuator (cheap, easy to do and recommend as possible root cause, which resulted in less power low down, I previously it might have been overboosting). Also replaced HP EGR and MAP, made no difference.

Hope this helps, the one thing that seems in common is that replacing Cooler improves if not fixes the issue for people. It's just sadly the most difficult thing to do.

 

[theoneandonly]

How did you get on changing the MAF?

I have exactly the same intermittent fault P0401-61 with a 2017 Ducato I’ve already had both EGR valves replaced, a new throttle body and a new turbo fitted. And after about 1000 miles the fault is back.

I have also just read that the problem could be with the EGR cooler. Is that for the valve located at the back by the DPF filter?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

You will see from this thread that a fair bit of progress has been made on a number of engines and the problems associated with the twin egr engine

Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next | FIAT Ducato

Foot off throttle the LP EGR is always closed so any downhill will only show the static LP temperature say 60-65 degrees as there will be now through airflow of exhaust.

www.fiatforum.com

I have analysed data from a number of engines to build up data on this problem.
do you have multiecuscan (also known as MES)?
Have a read of this next thread, just a tuturial on how to use MES and collect data for analysis

Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis.

This was originally written to help one person with his Ducato totally new to MES to start saving data. it is not an exhaustive manual nor intended to be. Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis. Open...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[Baz in Kent]

You will see from this thread that a fair bit of progress has been made on a number of engines and the problems associated with the twin egr engine

Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next | FIAT Ducato

Foot off throttle the LP EGR is always closed so any downhill will only show the static LP temperature say 60-65 degrees as there will be now through airflow of exhaust.

www.fiatforum.com

I have analysed data from a number of engines to build up data on this problem.
do you have multiecuscan (also known as MES)?
Have a read of this next thread, just a tuturial on how to use MES and collect data for analysis

Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis.

This was originally written to help one person with his Ducato totally new to MES to start saving data. it is not an exhaustive manual nor intended to be. Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis. Open...

www.fiatforum.com

Hi, you may recall I had a number of components replaced in line with the Fiat service news bulletin a couple of months ago, since when I've done about 3k miles. The data from a recent run are attached, mostly looking ok part from occasional. short-term high injector correction values.

I'd be keen to hear what you think abut these numbers and whether I should be concerned, there are no fault codes. I have Fiat warranty on the parts but doubt they'll do anything while everything's running fine.

Thanks & regards,

Baz

 

[Baz in Kent]

Hi, you may recall I had a number of components replaced in line with the Fiat service news bulletin a couple of months ago, since when I've done about 3k miles. The data from a recent run are attached, mostly looking ok part from occasional. short-term high injector correction values.

I'd be keen to hear what you think abut these numbers and whether I should be concerned, there are no fault codes. I have Fiat warranty on the parts but doubt they'll do anything while everything's running fine.

Thanks & regards,

Baz

As you can see from the screenshot, the higher values become more frequent later in the run (eg compare last 10 mins with first 10).
Cheers,
Baz

 

[RVi]

Hello everyone, it's 2023 now and we also suffer from this fault in our 2019 Euro 6B Ducato campervan with only 35k kilometers. The fault has been repaired under "coulance" by a Fiat workshop in Germany at 27.000 km's and is now back again at the mentioned 35.000 km point.
We hope Fiat will join us again at this point in time because there's still guarantee on the last repair (within 2 years). That repair has costed around €12.000 (10.000 payed by Fiat).
I must say that this is no engine you can trust on your long trips abroad.
Car will be in a workshop by next monday, will keep you guys posted....

 

[Baz in Kent]

Hello everyone, it's 2023 now and we also suffer from this fault in our 2019 Euro 6B Ducato campervan with only 35k kilometers. The fault has been repaired under "coulance" by a Fiat workshop in Germany at 27.000 km's and is now back again at the mentioned 35.000 km point.
We hope Fiat will join us again at this point in time because there's still guarantee on the last repair (within 2 years). That repair has costed around €12.000 (10.000 payed by Fiat).
I must say that this is no engine you can trust on your long trips abroad.
Car will be in a workshop by next monday, will keep you guys posted....

Thanks, having already had 2 repairs I’ll be very keen to hear what progress you make and particularly if yiu can get any advice or opinion from the workshop about what caused the problem.

There‘s another thread which has a lot more information here:

Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next | FIAT Ducato

Yesterday I had the software updated to v32 on our 2017 non Ab, Comfortmatic. I hope to pluck up the courage and do some logging in the coming months, I'll forward my results to @theoneandonly .

www.fiatforum.com

My van recently went into limp mode again but with different fault codes, 2112, 1810, 0639 and 1023, I cleared the codes and now await them returning. Apparently something to do with throttle/throttle body, the worry never stops…

Good luck.

 

[RVi]

Thanks, having already had 2 repairs I’ll be very keen to hear what progress you make and particularly if yiu can get any advice or opinion from the workshop about what caused the problem.

There‘s another thread which has a lot more information here:

Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next | FIAT Ducato

Yesterday I had the software updated to v32 on our 2017 non Ab, Comfortmatic. I hope to pluck up the courage and do some logging in the coming months, I'll forward my results to @theoneandonly .

www.fiatforum.com

My van recently went into limp mode again but with different fault codes, 2112, 1810, 0639 and 1023, I cleared the codes and now await them returning. Apparently something to do with throttle/throttle body, the worry never stops…

Good luck.

Will report my progress back!