General Doctor Death vs Gerrard

[Ralf S.]

MOT time.. and this time I was quite confident going in... but then the beast ran in to the same mechanic (who we shall cal Doctor Death) who eventually passed it last year.. more because of my persistence in bringing it back than because he really wanted to.

Last time out, the tailgate struts had been a bit sloppy for a while but I had learned to dodge the tailgate lid whenever it sagged.. The Doctor obviously had no idea and it did thump him rather hard on the head. Then it smoked out his workshop for good measure, since it was honestly a bit smokey... (kind of fire in a Kuwaiti oilfield level of smokey). The Doctor seems to have been a little offended at these displays of petulance and has been out to get Gerrard ever since.

This time out, I had recently fitted a new turbo boost valve, which greatly reduced the smokiness... there's still some, but it's not visibly black like before (more just grey) and it doesn't blot out the sun so much that dinosaurs start to worry. But it's a Euro-III and it smokes a bit.. so what?

The tailgate struts are also brand new Stabilus items, so no expense spared for the Doctor's head... but he still hasn't forgiven the beast and he failed it on a few points.

• Rear seat belt doesn't retract. It's been wrapped around a child seat for the last 4 years so that probably hasn't helped. I should have left the seat in.. but I thought I'd make things easier for the Doctor. Made it easier for him to fail it.
• The suspension annoyed him too. He says there's excessive movement in the O/S Track Rod End. These are a) three years old and b) were last touched by his workshop when they adjusted the tracking a fortnight ago. No mention that they were FUBAR.. though the lads who did it did seem to struggle to undo them and still left the steering wheel slightly askew.
• The suspension arm bush pin is apparently "badly worn" despite being just 3 weeks old.
• And the perennial favourite of the Doctor .. it smokes too much so he didn't carry out the emissions test.

Ignoring the seat-belt, which is a fair cop.. most of these items seem like a crock of made-up cobbolers... so anyway, I won't be bringing the beast back to that particular establishment ever again.

But if I clean the grease off the suspension arm pin, so the next regeneration of The Doctor can see that it's new, and fit new TREs so that the next regeneration of The Doctor can see that they're new... that leaves the exhaust smokes/or does it?

The Doctor failed it under 8.2.2.2(f) (too smokey to do an emissions test) but how does he decide what's too smokey? The GOV MOT guide talks about a smoke level limit.. but that seems to be used intechangeable to mean "emissions". Is there such a thing as an "approved diesel smoke meter" and is that the emissions gear, or is it something else?

Obviously before I takes the beast to someone else (ideally an old blind bloke) to test, I want to be reasonably sure that it can pass. Last year it had a diet of every fuel injection/exhaust smoke cleaner going, and it eventually "just" passed.. but this year the exhaust looks a lot better, even before I gave it the same battery of potions.

I dunno if they just see an old car with moon-shot mileage and expect it to have the same emissions as an electirc/hybrid/Fanny-Boy Special.. or if there's some other skull-duggery at work, like racking up their "Fail" count.. I dunno what black arts go on... but this one feels a bit fishy.


Ralf S.

 

[mj2k]

Must admit I do have the same reservations about some MOT testers, in my case it all started after a I took a Vauxhall Senator in for an MOT (I'd changed the injectors so it was the cheapest way to get an emissions test) 2 weeks after it had passed another MOT. The car passed it's emissions test, but the doing the MOT took exception to it having a bodykit (even though factory) covering the sills, and proceeded to smash his way through the sills and front chassis leg with a hammer and cold chisel to gain a few more structural fails (I could see the bright, freshly cut / dented, perfect metal when I checked his handiwork), after failing it for having 'illegal sill covers'!

He seemed quite worried when I pointed out what he had done and that the car had a fresh MOT anyway (a complaint to VOSA/DVSA followed), but he appeared to have failed the car as part of a 'quota' since it wasn't a 'regular' and quite old (though perfect before he chopped holes in it), or was maybe ensuring his garage made some cash out of fixing the damage he'd caused. Since then I've always made sure I use an MOT tester I know, though now your car's failed on smoking that's going to pop up on the screen when it goes for it's next MOT, so the next tester will look at that extra-critically too.

Assuming it's a diesel, maybe try popping the air filter out so it runs a bit weak when it goes in for it's MOT (not such an issue on a diesel as it would be on a petrol) assuming it's chuffing out black smoke rather than white?

NOTE: In no way am I suggesting all MOT testers are iffy and certainly the majority are perfectly honorable and do their job faultlessly, but judging by past experience there do seem to be a few rotten apples here and there (either creating 'jobs for the boys' or giving MOT passes to trader friends / acquaintances on cars which should plainly get a fail). Hopefully the electronic MOT (which might work against you) now allows the DVSA to get enough stats to weed the dodgier ones out though.

 

[Ralf S.]

My impression is that there are garages that just don't like owner-maintained cars.. either because they're an utter crock and have too much wrong with them to write up on the MOT failure sheet, or just because the garage doesn't get any revenue from that car.

Cheap MOTs is probably a warning flag, since there's nothing in it for the garage when they tell you something is worn/knackered/a hazard to all life on Earth etc. and then you take it away, fix it and then return it. I can imagine an element of extreme pickiness goes on, as "punishment" for not handing over your life's savings for them to change your "dangerous" (faults are always "dangerous" ) wiper blades. It seems worse when the car is essentially an old banger.

My previous Doctor taught me a lot. He was always too busy to fit me in, so often sent me away with a "you should be able to fix that yourself..." and I'd have to learn how to do it. Or he'd sometime pass something minor on condition that I'd change it, to save himself the hassle of a re-test... but sadly the Miley did for him in 2020. I haven't found anyone else as User-friendly since then, unfortunately.

On the other hand, I see some right old death traps on the road and I wonder who the hell passed it.. whilel my car fails for the indicator bulb flashing the wrong shade of orange.... If anyone knoes any "casual" MOT testers in Newport.. send me a PM.



Ralf S.

 

[Maxcaddy]

There's enough Testers around to be able to find one who is fair and reasonable, and who you can trust.

I have an old Grand Voyager that smokes much like yours, and my trick is to book an MoT at a specific time and take it for a good 10 mile thrash immediately before hand to get it really hot, and that usually cures the smoking until it cools down a lot.

 

[Ralf S.]

Got a call from the local Fiat dealer that my new, brand new 500X which I ordered back in August (and to be honest, had almost forgotten about) has arrived, and I can pick it up tomorrow.

But I'm not going to abandon the old war-horse just yet... I have a pair of new Track Rod Ends and a seconda-mano seatbelt to fit onto Gerrard.. so that'll leave just the smoke question to resolve. Obviously I'm no longer in a rush.. so if the weather clears up/gets warmer in the coming weeks, then I might pick a date and a garage that will give the beast the best chance of getting another year's worth of MOT ticket. It's been a most excellent motor, so a bit of semi-retirement will suit it better than being sold off to the glue factory.

Meanwhile.. I'll start chatting-up the 500X forum.. hopefully I won't need too much help from that forum for a very long time.. but you never knoe.


Ralf S.

 

[vexorg]

In my experience, most MOT testers wont fail it unless there is good reason. It's government controlled, and breaking the rules to fail something isn't worth the loss of MOT testing to garages.

 

[Davren]

Local authorities all run their own MOT test stations. They are mainly for testing council vehicles, but they will also test vehicles not belonging to the council. As these test stations only do MOT tests and not repairs, there's no benefit to them in giving false failures.
.

 

[Ralf S.]

In my experience, most MOT testers wont fail it unless there is good reason. It's government controlled, and breaking the rules to fail something isn't worth the loss of MOT testing to garages.

This is the same garage who failed my car for two worn rear tyres... even though I'd already *paid in advance* for two new rear tyres to be fitted before they MOT'd it. It miraculously passed 30 minutes after it had failed, according to the Govt MOT checker...

The Younger Mrs S's 500 failed at this place for an indicator bulb the wrong shade of orange. I admit it *was* a bit yellowy-orange.. but perhaps the good folk of Newport carry a RAL chart around with them... and compare a flashing yellowy-orange light on the light cluster vs the RGB code for "MOT Orange" or something. "Amber... well it's not an indicator.. .. I wonder what it means..? "

No.. they're not right. Each of my "fails" is someone's mate getting an easy pass, isn't it?


Ralf S.

 

[vexorg]

So they passed the first, and you got failed on old bulbs. I've had indicators fail on not being orange enough, and they were quite pale comapred to new bulbs, the orange fades with time. Hardly reason to tar all MOT inspectors.

 

[Ralf S.]

This weekend I replaced the seat-belt. It had some plastic guide loose, which was interfering with the retractor. Once I replaced it, the action was better, but still a bit lazy (it had been permanently attached to a child seat for 3 years, so fair enough). The new one is "snappier" so while the old one was much better, I fitted the new (second-hand) one just to be sure.

The Track Rod Ends were a bit of a mission. The nearside one was in perfect condition, if I say so myself.. but interesting that when I went to remove it (to fit a new one, just in case some dirt on the old one fails it.. ) it was impossible to remove. The garage was supposed to have done the tracking just 3 weeks ago.. and really cannot have. I needed to get a blowtorch and enough release spray on the lock-nut that I still smell of it.. before it came undone. It can't been touched since I changed the TRE's about 2-3 years ago.

I ran out of time to remove the offside one that upset the Doctor but if his oiks put as much grief on that one as I had to, to remove the nearside one, then they probably damaged it themselves.

I'm less moody about that than the suspension arm bush pin being apparently "badly worn" .. since I wrote the date I fitted them.. "2nd Jan 21" on them. There's *nothing* that can happen to a suspension arm that will make the pin "badly worn" in 300 miles.

I'll put photos of the bits on here later (car is SORN at my shed at the moment) so people can have a look and see what they think.. just maybe interesting, not because I need too much sympathy.


Ralf S.

 

[davidthelodge]

For JTD emissions its best to grid off the official Co2 emision level off the VIN plate, then from memory it only has to comply to a much higher level. I think its an emissions level of 3.0 max, pre 2006 reg

 

[Ralf S.]

For JTD emissions its best to grid off the official Co2 emision level off the VIN plate, then from memory it only has to comply to a much higher level. I think its an emissions level of 3.0 max, pre 2006 reg

That's my plan now. It does smoke a little when I boot it.. but I only boot it to give it a clean out so that the crud doesn't build up and then all come out when the MOT tester revs it.. otherwise I just potter around in it and I'm not sure it's really a threat to all life on Earth. It's a Euro-III and I think testers forget how smokey those were... I dunno what it should look like myself to be honest.

Emissions last year were okay, it's just the smoke that put the tester off. I think last year the turbo actuator boost valve was on the way out, since the smoke got progressively worse through the year and it took a lot of potions to get rid of the smoke for the test... although The Doctor did complain it bunged up his nozzle when he first ran it. I fitted a new actuator boost valve in December that completely cured the smoke issue (or so it appeared).

Anyhow, I'm getting on with correcting the issues, real or imaginary. I've got a new 500X now, so the Stilo will only get casual use (tip run or carrying tools/parts etc. that would mess up my carpets.. ) assuming I can save it. It's been a good motor for me and if you ignore the MOT results there's not much actually wrong with it.


Ralf S.

 

[mj2k]

Think giving it a good 'Italian tuneup' before taking it for the MOT is the right way to go, and make sure you drop it off at the MOT station shortly before the MOT is due so it's nice and warm, and hopefully soot-free before it goes on the emissions tester. Oh, and obv check to make sure it's got a nice new air filter (or leave it out even) to make sure there's nothing restricting air flow into the engine.

 

[cris1117]

I have driven diesels for the past 40 years and the smoky engine is very easy to cure, most of the time its just soot build up in the exhaust box.
You wont clear it out by driving hard as many people suggest I have tried this and straight afterwards tried my method which results in a big black cloud of soot.

On the way to the test centre find a quite place pull over and just put your foot to the floor for two seconds do this three or four time and the engine will run clearer each time until it runs completely clear.
Many people are frightened it may damage the engine I have been doing this to vans, cars and lorries for 40 years with no ill effects.
Providing the usual maintenance and servicing have been done it wont harm the engine.

 

[mj2k]

I have driven diesels for the past 40 years and the smoky engine is very easy to cure, most of the time its just soot build up in the exhaust box.
You wont clear it out by driving hard as many people suggest I have tried this and straight afterwards tried my method which results in a big black cloud of soot.

On the way to the test centre find a quite place pull over and just put your foot to the floor for two seconds do this three or four time and the engine will run clearer each time until it runs completely clear.
Many people are frightened it may damage the engine I have been doing this to vans, cars and lorries for 40 years with no ill effects.
Providing the usual maintenance and servicing have been done it wont harm the engine.

Depends exactly how hard you drive

That's good advice - more chance of clearing the muck and less chance of losing your license than the "Italian tuneup". Another thing which I used to do, though NOT ADVISED FOR POST 1995 CARS was to stick a little ATF (AKA Redex diesel injector cleaner) in the tank a couple of fillups before the MOT to help clear out any other muck buildup. It used to make the car smoke like a beggar for a while, but it always ran cleaner and improved power / economy too.

Def not wise to stick anything weird in the tank for EDC or common rail diesels though (i.e. pretty much anything built after 1995) - it's likely to break something.

 

[Ralf S.]

I have driven diesels for the past 40 years and the smoky engine is very easy to cure, most of the time its just soot build up in the exhaust box.
You wont clear it out by driving hard as many people suggest I have tried this and straight afterwards tried my method which results in a big black cloud of soot.

On the way to the test centre find a quite place pull over and just put your foot to the floor for two seconds do this three or four time and the engine will run clearer each time until it runs completely clear.
Many people are frightened it may damage the engine I have been doing this to vans, cars and lorries for 40 years with no ill effects.
Providing the usual maintenance and servicing have been done it wont harm the engine.

I shall add that to my pre-MOT ritual. I think you're right, as much as the mechanical commotion frightens me..

Last year I drove around the local steel works for a few laps in third gear, so that I could use the upper half of the rev range.. and it cleared up a fair bit for a day... but the next day it was back to smoking when under load/full throttle... so I think you're right about needing to flush out the exhaust.
I did think about just sticking a new silencer on it, for what they cost... but that might be the last resort before I concede and it'll be "top end rebuild and new turbo/actuator pot" time...



Ralf S.

 

[vexorg]

On the way to the test centre find a quite place pull over and just put your foot to the floor for two seconds do this three or four time and the engine will run clearer each time until it runs completely clear.
Many people are frightened it may damage the engine.

A lot of modern cars think that too and will limit the max revs if you're not moving.

 

[Ralf S.]

New O/S Track Rod End fitted, since the old one didn't satisfy the doctor.

The Track Rods (I changed both) only came out after I'd practically melted the lock nuts with a blow-lamp and then given them half a can of Release Spray... so I dunno how the Doctor's own garage lads had adjusted the tracking just two weeks prior to the MOT. Judging by the state of the TRE they just beat the b'jesus out of it with a lump hammer.. so it's funny (I'm really splitting my sides here ) that the Doctor then failed it for a "worn" component.

Anyhow, new Track Rod nuts fitted in nice shiny A2 stainless steel (M14 Fine pitch, for reference) to keep them from welding themselves to the steering arms... although it might be for nothing, if the smoke is an actual real problem rather than the moody Doctor with an axe to grind.

Interesting to note that the TREs were quite dry under the rubber gaitors. I made a mental note that (at risk of splitting the rubber gaitors), it might be worth lubing up the TREs every so often, to keep them greasy. I didn't get a photo.. but the ball joints were dry, almost like a door latch often appears. What would we stick in there, CV joint grease or just anything (better than nothing)?

Not sure what I can do with the suspension arm "ball joint excessively worn" since the arm (as you can see) was new at 215,715 miles and the MOT took place at 216,578. Must be shocking quality, right...?

 

[cris1117]

Assuming you mean the drop links, there are a lot of rubbish car parts and fakes especial on
certain nameless web sites (buy cheap buy twice).
I try to stick with main dealer parts not usually very much dearer and at least you know what your getting, otherwise a good make from a reputable shop.

 

[Ralf S.]

The MOT form says "Offside Front Suspension arm ball joint excessively worn (5.3.4 (a) (i))" so I assume it's the suspension arm pin where it joins the hub. The arm is brand new, the pin was brand new (came with the arm) and it looks and feels brand new, so I'm not sure what he means, to be honest. I cleaned some grease off the pin and it looks shinier now...

I'll check the drop links.. but they're just 20,000 miles old or thereabouts. I think they're Borg which aren't too shabby... but the Stilo doesn't kill drop links. The previous ones were okay, but I had to replace the dampers (broken spring on the nearside so I replaced both struts with all new parts) at 180k... I replaced the drop-links at the same time since the nut was very stiff on the ball joint and spinning it round.. so new ones was easier. If they weren't changed by the previous owner then they were the ones out of the factory.

Anyhow... next job is to find an MOT place staffed by wiry looking old geezers who remember four star petrol and no catalysts, to check the smoke.

I might try and rig up a phone camera on the exhaust and run it through the MOT test procedure just to have a look at how bad it really is. I seldom just rev the car stationery... the last time was after I replaced the fuel filter but had forgotten to re-connect the fuel line, so the engine was flooded. When it started I had to give it some gas to clear it out.. and the smoke cloud was so thick it made several species of dinosaurs extinct.. but in normal driving, I can hardly see any smoke at all, so it seems a harsh interpretation of the MOT regs, if the Doctor is just being a bit jobsworth.


Ralf S.