Technical Dipstick keeps coming out & oil going everywhere!

[BooBooDevere]

Hi there.

Been an issue with the dipstick. It's keeps popping out, and is letting the oil out. Purchased a brand new original dipstick (from Fiat). It seemed to work for a day or two, but then it too kept popping out, so back to square one.

It seems that there is some kind of build up of pressure that's forcing the dipstick out. The local garage did a compression test, and he mentioned that cylinder 1 was slightly low but it should be ok.

He claimed to look at the breather pipes, but I may do it myself to double check.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hello again

What type of engine?

Petrol I seem to think..

You have had it a few weeks.. has it used any oil or water?

 

[BooBooDevere]

Hi there.

Petrol 1.4 engine.

No water, it loses oil from the tube where the dipstick is housed (it just spurts oil from there). I've put cardboard under the car to see if there are leaks there, but nothing.

 

[bugsymike]

Back pressure from worn engine, piston wear?
As you say checking breather pipes may help.
Probably get oil everywhere, but could try undoing oil filler cap with engine running to test, you may hear a drumming noise and feel air/fumes from engine.
As the drunk says "piston broke", story of my life .
If you have only bought it recently any chance of redress, piston wear doesn't happen in minutes, would have thought the seller would have known!
Combustion pressure blow/leaks past worn pistons/rings, sometimes you can recognise the smell of combustion in the fumes. Would expect some smoke and oil level going down more than you would normally expect.

 

[BooBooDevere]

Ok thank you.

Re redress; I'm afraid I got it off eBay so sold as seen and the seller isn't interested.

Anyway, judging by the amount of oil coming out of the dipstick housing I'm thinking (as well as checking the breather pipe) of making a oil cap breather (so excess air has somewhere to go). Something like a vented oil cap afaik.

Btw, some people have mentioned that it could be a faulty PCV valve. Does anyone know if it's easy & cheap to replace for the Fiat Grande?

 

[bugsymike]

As a temporary fix a vented breather may help, along with maybe going to slightly "thicker grade" of oil, maybe a 10/40. Is engine misfiring, low on power, heavy smoking or fairly driveable?
Does the condition/value/age/length of MOT of the rest of the car warrant another engine?
No help to you, but over fifty years ago I bought a 1955 Morris Minor from a friend for £10 with the engine knocking so bad he was running it on 90 grade gear oil to quieten the main bearings!! Whilst out with a friend I was stopped by the Policeman who thought it was a noisy exhaust, we proved nothing wrong with the exhaust by putting my foot over the tail pipe and stopping the engine, then told him noise was due to a worn engine. He, obviously was still chasing for an offence and tried "isn't that dangerous?" too which we replied "there are two motor mechanics in the car and we are not worried, so he let us go .
I would say again it was over fifty years ago and later that week obtained a good engine for £5 in the local scrapyard.
Unfortunately not today's secondhand engine price!

 

[koalar]

Finger crossed

Dipstick 'Blowing' Out - Oil spray... | FIAT Punto (Mk2/2b)

Hi Guys, I've noticed my dipstick keeps blowing out slightly (top part just coming up) and spraying oil. I dont think it is a piston ring as the car running as normal and no signs of any smoke at all. I recently installed a GSR so thought it may be a blocked breather but they seem to be...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[BooBooDevere]

As a temporary fix a vented breather may help, along with maybe going to slightly "thicker grade" of oil, maybe a 10/40. Is engine misfiring, low on power, heavy smoking or fairly driveable?
Does the condition/value/age/length of MOT of the rest of the car warrant another engine?

That's good to hear re breather cap, but unsure where to buy one for a Punto (or even how to make one, I will check YouTube for info on a DIY one).

It has a full MOT, but I suspect buying an engine and having someone put it in would be too cost prohibitive! (Only paid £850 for the car). But to answer your question, it is drivable with no misfires. It originally lost power but a new coilpack/leads and sparks sorted that out.

It interesting that you mention using thicker grade oil. When I drove the car home from the seller, there was no leak at all. When we (my friend) checked the oil, it was very black/thick (prob due to not being changed for a very long time). So there is something in that. As long as I can get away with 10/40 oil, then I will try that.

 

[bugsymike]

That's good to hear re breather cap, but unsure where to buy one for a Punto (or even how to make one, I will check YouTube for info on a DIY one).

It has a full MOT, but I suspect buying an engine and having someone put it in would be too cost prohibitive! (Only paid £850 for the car).

It interesting that you mention using thicker grade oil. When I drove the car home from the seller, there was no leak at all. When we (my friend) checked the oil, it was very thick (prob due to not being changed for a very long time). So there is something in that. As long as I can get away with 10/40 oil, then I will try that.

If it isn't misfiring and still driveable I would tend to just keep an eye on all the levels under the bonnet, maybe sort a breather and just potter around locally, high speed motorway jobs will rapidly escalate the problem.
If you can get a years use out of it, much cheaper than a hire car and you can weigh it in at the end.
You never know if nothing else goes wrong and no bad smoke, unlikely but you may get another year.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I'm intrigued by your symptoms - the car that is! How many miles on the clock? how old (year of first reg)? what type of running does it usually get?

I think this has to be excess crankcase pressure doesn't it? So either gasses wishing to exit are being blocked or excess gasses are entering the system in the first place (and that's most likely to be piston blow by) First thing to do is check for a blocked breather pipe - top of cam cover to air filter especially. It's quite a large diameter so easy enough checked. It may still have it's wire mesh flame trap which by now is likely to be corroded and saturated with "gunge" so just poke it out and throw it away. There is a very slight chance that if you have a big engine backfire without a flame trap in place you can ignite the crankcase fumes and cause a lot of engine damage, however most of mine have run, and both my Panda and the boy's Punto are running at this time, without flame traps, I've never had a problem and I don't loose any sleep over it.

On my boy's Punto (2012 1.4 8valve petrol) the small diameter breather which connects into the air filter is often blocked with "mayo" but I just blow it out and it's good to go. The big diameter breather pipe is always pretty clear. Although if this small diameter pipe is blocked it may give you running problems, 'specially regarding smoothness of tickover, I doubt it would give the symptoms you have. Typically his car does a half hour journey to work from the outskirts to the city centre and back every day so it's not ideal running. Remember to clean out the stub pipes the hoses connect to as well and, while you're about it, you may well find the throttle butterfly could do with a clean too.

If your breathers are all clear then you need to do a compression check (or even better a cylinder leak test). If you get this far then further action will be dictated by the results. Good luck.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Ps to the above. I think the recommendation about a PCV valve being replaced - I've never had reason to look for one on our FIRE engines - do we even have them? - probably wouldn't help. PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valves) are there to allow crankcase fumes to be drawn into the inlet at higher inlet manifold depressions without destroying the inlet manifold vacuum at idle. The big breather hose, which goes from the cam cover to the air filter casing on our engines, has nothing to do with PCV valves.

 

[BooBooDevere]

Thanks for that Jock! It's 2005 and done 90k. I suspect the previous owner just used it for local runs. Garage performed a compression check, cylinder 1 was a bit low.

I agree re PCV valve, not sure if it has one as can't find one for sale?

 

[bugsymike]

Ps to the above. I think the recommendation about a PCV valve being replaced - I've never had reason to look for one on our FIRE engines - do we even have them? - probably wouldn't help. PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valves) are there to allow crankcase fumes to be drawn into the inlet at higher inlet manifold depressions without destroying the inlet manifold vacuum at idle. The big breather hose, which goes from the cam cover to the air filter casing on our engines, has nothing to do with PCV valves.

I agree PCV valves were more common in the late 1970s early 80s. You used to hear them rattle in older Vauxhalls alot.
As Jock says if you can do things to make it breath better, it should at least keep the dip stick in.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks for that Jock! It's 2005 and done 90k. I suspect the previous owner just used it for local runs. Garage performed a compression check, cylinder 1 was a bit low.

I agree re PCV valve, not sure if it has one as can't find one for sale?

Thanks BooBoo, do you know what the actual figures were on the compression check? Is there any sign of the engine being a bit "loupy" at tickover or even has a slight missfire. What I mean is does it run fairly smoothly at tickover with a reasonably steady and even exhaust beat? A cylinder with low compression is most likely to be noticable at low revs/tickover. If it's ticking over pretty steadily then I'd bet it's something to do with blocked breathers.

I'm not sure what your's will be like inside the cam cover where the breather pipe fits to. It just could be blocked inside the cover? Clean the end of the breather pipe, put it back on the camcover and then blow down the end that goes onto the air filter. After savouring the delicate flavour of emulsified old engine oil, ask yourself Is it clear or might there be a build up inside the cover? Clean the end of the pipe you're putting against your lips well or use another new bit of pipe. However don't get too "anal" about it, I've been doing it for years and I'm not aware of any problems it's caused me - Never had to revert to syrup of Figs however?!

If it's spent a lot of it's life on "shopping duty" and after you've made sure all the breathers are clear, you may find it would appreciate a nice long run out on the open road. It doesn't need to be at excessive speed or given too much of an "Italian" hammering, just given a nice long run with the engine well up to temperature. Obviously keeping a close eye on the coolant temp and stopping from time to time to give the oil level a check. This should really clear out the moisture content of the engine internals and emulsify some of the potential cold running sludge into the oil so an oil and filter change afterwards would probably be a good move. Of course it might have little effect if the problem is piston blow by but, as long as you watch the oil level, it couldn't do any harm and you might learn other things about the car as you get familiar with it?

If you really want to go "overboard" you might think of adding something like this: https://www.forteuk.co.uk/product/advanced-formula-petrol-treatment/. Other brands are available but you often find the trade using this brand. Personally I'm not a great believer in most additives but some of these clean up type formulations might have a place in circumstances like this. I'd start with a detailed and careful examination and clean up of the breathers first though.

 

[BooBooDevere]

Interesting vid (Polish with subtitles), where this is apparently a common problem (FIRE) where the dipstick comes out:



Worth a watch.

 

[koalar]

Not 100% sure but I think yours has an oil vapour separator

The Panda used a simpler system of a couple of pipes

If it was me I wouldn’t worry too much and just pop off a ventilation pipe until I found the offending one

Then clean or replace

It’s unlikely to be anything serious considering a compression test was okay.

 

[bugsymike]

Interesting vid (Polish with subtitles), where this is apparently a common problem (FIRE) where the dipstick comes out:



Worth a watch.

Interesting video.
Jock was saying about the "mayonnaise" and the Polish guy was also, short journeys in colder climates makes it more common.
Living down in Devon we rarely see snow and near the sea very little frost even in the middle of winter, so it would be unusual to see that sort of build up.
As an apprentice it was more common to take the valve cover off and see the sludge with the types of oil used in the old days and often cars with no thermostats so they ran too cold.
One thing I always did was fit winter thermostats in my vehicles 88 degree Centigrade instead of the standard 82 degree ones on lots of cars, it made the engines warm up quickly and they ran quieter, more economically and it improved the heater for demisting.
Not so easy these days with model specific thermostats.
I have a pair of the clip pliers in the video, they undo and do up the clips though they don't fit all newer types.
I noted at the start the thread said one compression was lower, though I don't know what the readings were.

 

[BooBooDevere]

Not 100% sure but I think yours has an oil vapour separator

Thanks, so assuming my Punto does have one, does the oil vapour separator need to be replaced, or cleaned?

I'm gonna look at the breather pipes in the morning. Assuming I can't stop the dipstick from flying out , how do I go about making a breather (oil) cap? I take it I just don't drill a couple of holes in it? Thanks.

 

[koalar]

Thanks, so assuming my Punto does have one, does the oil vapour separator need to be replaced, or cleaned?

Before doing anything it’s always worth diagnosing as much as possible

Often we see people change the most likely for it to be something else. Which is fine if you catch it the first few times but soon get very expensive

To be popping the dipstick you have a build up of positive pressure caused blow by of the pistons

Manufactures design a way of getting rid of these by feeding them back into the inlet and burning them off. Nicer for the environment than just venting to the atmosphere

INTRODUCTION - CRANKCASE VAPOUR/GAS RECIRCULATION SYSTEM - Fiat - GRANDE PUNTO - eLearn - 4CarData

I would start by removing pipe 2 and see if the problem persists

If it does I would check if pipe 2 is block

If the problem goes away we then need to fix the problem or change the oil separator as it’s irresponsible just venting into atmosphere

But there’s no point in running before we can walk, let’s confirm this is the problem

 

[bugsymike]

First clean/check all breather pipes are clear.
Not sure about your model but some newer engines run funny if breather system pipes not connected.
Ideally it is just a blocked breather fitted between the air filter and MAF sensor, which in normal use would have "negative" pressure due to air being drawn into the inlet manifold which should reduce the chance of the dip stick being pushed out.
Incidentally pressure as you have described has the effect of pushing oil out past crank seals etc.