500 Dead clutch pedal

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500 Dead clutch pedal

Baldypaul

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Hi there.I am a new member from the northeast UK.My daughter has a 2013 500.The problem with dead clutch pedal occurred a couple of months ago.She tried to engage first gear and found that the clutch pedal was almost on the floor.Her friend a mechanic,diagnosed a bad slave cylinder and replaced it.All was well for a couple of weeks,but then the problem came back.The friend took it away and all was well again for about 6 weeks,until I got a call from my daughter saying it was not engaging again and that she didnt want to go back to her friend.I took a look this morning and was going to move it,as I had been told that you can engage 3rd gear without the need of the clutch.I couldnt get into any gears at all only the crunching sound when trying to engage reverse.There is about 1 inch of travel left on the clutch pedal and when depressed the piston on the slave cylinder moves very slightly.I have read that the hydraulics are a pig to bleed,and was wondering if that could be the trouble.Any help will be greatfully received
 
I'm not experienced with Fiat clutches in particular, but that sort of issue does happen on hydraulic clutches whatever they're fitted to, either lack of fluid or an airlock.

What happens when you pump the clutch pedal? Does it get better? If so that's an airlock and bleeding will sort.

And are there any signs of the fluid in the reservoir dropping? If so there's another leak somewhere, and that'll need to be sorted before anything else.
 
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Hi there.I am a new member from the northeast UK.My daughter has a 2013 500.The problem with dead clutch pedal occurred a couple of months ago.She tried to engage first gear and found that the clutch pedal was almost on the floor.Her friend a mechanic,diagnosed a bad slave cylinder and replaced it.All was well for a couple of weeks,but then the problem came back.The friend took it away and all was well again for about 6 weeks,until I got a call from my daughter saying it was not engaging again and that she didnt want to go back to her friend.I took a look this morning and was going to move it,as I had been told that you can engage 3rd gear without the need of the clutch.I couldnt get into any gears at all only the crunching sound when trying to engage reverse.There is about 1 inch of travel left on the clutch pedal and when depressed the piston on the slave cylinder moves very slightly.I have read that the hydraulics are a pig to bleed,and was wondering if that could be the trouble.Any help will be greatfully received
Reading between the lines I do not reccomend you DIY your problem.

There is a joint in the hydraulic pipe between the clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder which can cause problems replacing either cylinder.

We do not know what "friend" has done to car right or wrong.

The fiat 500 is very closely related to the ford ka of similar years. If you cant find a local independent garage familiar with fiat 500 try to find one familiar with ford ka.

Please report outcome as it may help others.

Good luck
 
Air in the system I'd guess personally I'd replace both slave(again)and master cylinder I'm pretty sure this will fix it properly.
It's not hard to bleed I suspect a slow leak, if you replaced both it's not too hard a diy job if you're used to doing work on the car
 
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The bleeder is just a regular nipple from memory (or a moulded nipple that is opened by undoing a tap screw) but if you stick a tube on it and open it up, then pump the clutch, that should remove the air and restore the slave cylinder.

While you're there, follow the line from the slave all the way to the master cylinder, making sure that it's all dry (no brake/clutch fluid anywhere along the way).

It's quite hard to not be able to bleed the clutch "enough".... Is the clutch making a whirring/clanking noise during idle in neutral that disappears when the clutch is depressd? I'm wondering whether the real problem is a physical clutch issue (actuator arm/pressure plate fingers etc.) rather than a slave problem?

How many miles has that clutch done?


Ralf S.
 
Hi fellas.Sorry about the delay getting back to you.I took the car to a garage which bled the the system.That was last Saturday.Last night my daughter rang to say that it had failed again.She has been driving it all week without problems,but after visiting us last night,drove home(less than 1/2 mile,she was driving home and she said the pedal was getting "sticky" and hard to engage gear.She managed to limp home,but unable to select any gears again.Would a slow leak result in a build up of air in the system,and resulting failure? I was reading one of the old posts about the quick connector in the system,which could be a failure point.I will have a look at that.Also someone mentioned replacing it with a stainless hydraulic connector.Is there enough play in the pipework after cutting the quick connector out to reconnect to a new fitting?
 
I would change the Slave cylinder first. It's the more likely one to fail and its the cheaper of the two. It's also on top of the gearbox getting battered by road grit, so the seals get a hard life. If the seals have failed, there will be some moisture (fluid) under the rubber bellows, or dripping onto the gearbox. If all looks okay and dry, then the master cylinder could be the culprit. When the seals fail the pedal doesn't push enough fluid down to the slave.

You may be able to bleed the system again, have a look at how much movement there is at the slave when the clutch is pressed in and all is working well... then compare the movement to the movement when the pedal sticks.

If the slave is moving the same, then the problem is at the bottom (slave or clutch). If the slave moves less, then the problem is likely to be at the top (master) but doesn't completely rule out the slave too.


Ralf S.
 
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Hi.Ive had a look at the quick connector in the passenger wheel arch and there is fluid coming from the connection .The slave and master cylinders have both been changed recently,so it looks like the new pipework that comes with them hasnt been used and the old left in and not checked
 
I havent had chance to remove battery etc,to look yet,but the fact that the quick connector is leaking,leads me to suspect that the cylinders have been changed but not the pipework.cheers
 
I havent had chance to remove battery etc,to look yet,but the fact that the quick connector is leaking,leads me to suspect that the cylinders have been changed but not the pipework.cheers

Your problem may become sourcing new pipework without new cylinders, I've heard you "can" with the right tools remove (the quick connect ) and join the two pipes( any hydraulic pipe engineer should be able to fix this )
 
I think it's just essentially "brake pipe" .. possibly 5/16" or 7.9mm (I remember it as bigger than the usual 3/16" 4.7mm stuff).

If you have a flaring kit with the right sized die, you should be able to stick an olive on each cut end and then flare the ends... then insert some length of pipe in place of the QC.

Doesn't sound toooo shocking difficult if someone has the equipment.



Ralf S.
 
I think it's just essentially "brake pipe" .. possibly 5/16" or 7.9mm (I remember it as bigger than the usual 3/16" 4.7mm stuff).

If you have a flaring kit with the right sized die, you should be able to stick an olive on each cut end and then flare the ends... then insert some length of pipe in place of the QC.

Doesn't sound toooo shocking difficult if someone has the equipment.



Ralf S.
The pipes are a plastic rubber type material so both somthing you can flare with a brake pipe tool
 
Hi there.Ive had a better look at the quick connector this morning,and it definitely looks wet with fluid.Also,one end of the connector has the white plastic sitting flush,while the other end ,the white plastic is sitting proud of the end by about 4-5mm?? It was mentioned about changing the slave cylinder first to see if that is the problem.How do I disconnect the pipe end from the quick connector? On another note,the central locking has stopped working now.When I press the lock button,the mechanism makes a quiet click and the indicators flash,but it doesnt lock.When you press the unlock button,it clicks a lot louder and flashes.Could this be the actuator,or something else.Thanks for listening to a tired old dad,and all replies very welcome
 
Some pics to help
 

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The white collar should sit proud all the way round, in theory you push the collar into the main body and it "simply" comes apart in practice its impossible.

I suggest have an expert cut out the section and remake the joint, the pressure is not as great as in the braking system, or, replace the two pipe sections?

As for the central locking, does it lock when inside the car and the handle moved to the lock position, the same way as it can auto lock whilst driving( good to stop someone opening the door at the lights and swiping you daughters bag of the seat) ?

Given the cars age a very well known issue relates to the rear hatch and its wires, in a nut shell they snap and short out causing all sorts of strange problems, I would look there first, this link shows where it fails in the last picture https://www.fiatforum.com/500/48501...-2013-model-lights-issues-warning-lights.html

Un related you need to replace the earth bonding strap from the chassis to the gear box, about £5 from Ebay
 
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If the C/locking "lock" function makes the indicators flash rapidly for a second, rather than the usual twin(?) flashes, then it indicates that the car couldn't lock itself.

Easiest way to prove it is to test both doors and the boot, to see which one is still open, then take it from there.

The bootlid may simply be "open", since closing it while holding the handle in a natural way, makes you press the trigger when the door hits the latch. Eventually you learn to hold the edge of the chrome doodah, rather than keep your fingers under it.

The doors could be a sticky actuator .. (passenger door usually.. I don't know why).... but check whether the mirror and/or window works before you dismantle anything. If the whole door is "dead" then it's probably the connector in the door jamb, rather than anything in the door itself.


Ralf S..
 
The pipes are a plastic rubber type material so both somthing you can flare with a brake pipe tool

Aye! I was underneath Rasputin this weekend (wishbone arms... that is all.. Ahhhh Ahhhh Ahhhh Ahhhh) and I noticed the pipes are plastic, so my bad.

I was probably thinking of my Stilo pipe, which attaches somehow to a braided nylon line before it reaches the slave outlet on top of the gearbox.


Ralf S.
 
The bootlid may simply be "open", since closing it while holding the handle in a natural way, makes you press the trigger when the door hits the latch. Eventually you learn to hold the edge of the chrome doodah, rather than keep your fingers under it.

We are supposed to use the little strap on the inside to shut the boot.:D

I rarely do though;)

gr J
 
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