Technical Crunchy Third

[Big Black Stilo]

Brought up in bleeding clutch thread but...

My crunchy third is getting on my tits- its not crunchy all the time, just particuly at anything over 2500 rpm gear change, but can happen at lower revs when driving.

Im getting to be really concious of this now.

Without the car running, it selects it fine (once had a rental matiz that had crunchy third then no third and wouldnt go in when not running)

timing the revs and changing without clutch- goes in fine

Using clutch- it sometimes crunches possibly 40% of the time.

Im going to call the dealers and see if its a warranty thing or an adjustment or (heaven forbid) a repair.

What does anyone reckon? all other gears are fine, clutch bite is normal and good position, no judder and no slipping

 

[Deckchair5]

Well it can ony be 3 things
Clutch
Gearbox
Gear selector mechanism

Clutch
If it's clutch then you'd feel it in other gears too

Gearbox
If it's gearbox then the synchro isn't working properly. It's worn, either by previous users heavy handed or unsympathetic gearchanges or it's a weak/faulty synchro in the first place or a lack of lubrication.
Have you checked the gearbox oil level? Thought about changing the oil?

Gear selector mechanism
Things maybe out of line on selection or worn selectors. Only a dealer would be able to check

So if you're happy with the clutch, check the gearbox oil. After that it starts getting expensive

 

[Big Black Stilo]

well its booked in the dealers for them to have a look at on monday


how do you check the gearbox oil level?

if it is faulty bits (as car still low mileage) do you reckon its covered under 3rd year warranty?

 

[Deckchair5]

"how do you check the gearbox oil level?"
Usually there's a level plug half way up the box side. You take it out then pour new oil in the top (or sometimes in through the same hole) until it just starts to pour back out again through the level plug hole

"if it is faulty bits (as car still low mileage) do you reckon its covered under 3rd year warranty?"
Well a worn synchro most probably "wear and tear" as they have no idea how well/ badly you treat your gearbox; depends on lots of things though like whether your garage already knew of the crunchie problem beforehand and whether the garage owner had a good night at the S & M Xmas party

 

[PNL]

Iwould agree I think it is a selecter [wear n tear or out of line] if it is there will be some sincro mesh damage because of this if you have been running on low oil I think that has probably not helped anyway it is usually a gear box out and strip down job and can be expensive see if there are any recon boxes available compair that against the cost of rebuild quite often it can be cheaper

 

[Big Black Stilo]

Well the dealer looking at it has serviced the car since day dot, and supplied the car.

car has a FSH.

The owner before me was the garage.

They have been good in the past doing things on warranty that really shouldnt.

Hopefully its an adjustment and no damage has been done.

 

[Big Black Stilo]

BTW its not overly crunchy- a mate who has driven my car said he would have ignored it

its just more apparent at higher speeds

 

[Argonought]

BTW its not overly crunchy- a mate who has driven my car said he would have ignored it

its just more apparent at higher speeds

In that case, I'd just get the level checked. If it really is ok then I'd consider paying to have it replaced (obviously making sure it's replaced with the correct grade oil).

I've discovered over the years that the majority of minor gearbox issues come down to low oil level.

 

[Big Black Stilo]

further to this guys n gals, I just been out in the car and was a little bit naughty considering the engine was cold, it doesnt do it! It kicked off at any over 3k RPM once the temp needle was near halfway

goddam confusing

 

[Big Black Stilo]

As an update, just got back from the dealers and they had a little drive of the car, the felt it happen but it wasnt regular so told me to give it till the end of Jan and if its worse or still doing it bring it back and the will do repair under warranty. (which is ok for me as I have no holidays left till then and is a week long repair so will have no car to go to work in)

Looking like a worn synchro on third gear according to the service manager and it can either be replaced or he can try and get a whole new gear box.

I'd prefer the gear box option personally but lets see in Jan!

 

[Deckchair5]

Good result then BBS. I'd go for the new box
Synchros aren't like fine wines, they don't improve with age

 

[Big Black Stilo]

I will have to see in January what happens

 

[skybluesteve]

I had a stilo 1.2 on an 03 plate which had 'crunchy third'. The dealer agreed to fit a new gearbox but it didn't really solve the problem. Eventually, after lots of other problems, I exchanged it for a 1.4 on an 04 plate ... this one is going back in to have a new gearbox because of 'crunchy third' also! It is also having the clutch replaced for the second time! The dealer knows about the clutch problem (FIAT have admitted crap clutches on that one) but the 'crunchy third' is a mystery to me and my dealer.

 

[euan]

I've got a crunchy first, but only when cruising to stop at a roundabout, put clutch pedal to the floor, select gear, crunch... Is that normal, or is 1st a special gear wear you have to be fully stopped to select it (bear in mind this is with the clutch fully out all the time)? meh

Just paid 280 for a new mid and rear exhaust section, and apparently the bearings in the alternator are what is making the screeching noise, not a slipping belt...

 

[Scorg]

Add me into the Crunchy third list.
its at its worst when cold though, when the cars heated up it appears to stop doing this. It also crunches every time I stick into reverse unless I stick it into first gear before hand.

 

[wotnowarninglight]

Add me into the Crunchy third list.
its at its worst when cold though, when the cars heated up it appears to stop doing this. It also crunches every time I stick into reverse unless I stick it into first gear before hand.

Think clutch adjustment may cure the crunch into reverse as it sounds like its not dis-engaging fully. Due to gear selection issues on the Favorit, Skoda actually changed the recommended grade of gearbox oil - new recommended grade into box and gear selection issues gone - wonder if Fiat have just picked the wrong garde of oil? Stilo gearchange particularly obstructive when its below 5 Degrees Centigrade.

and apparently the bearings in the alternator are what is making the screeching noise, not a slipping belt...

If it sounds like one of those leaping kiddie toy dogs does... had it earlier when I picked my missus up from work, like you say not belts as blipping throttle doesnt clear/cure it! Gee lets hope the autocare warranty covers that

 

[Big Black Stilo]

Ok all

I now no longer have a crunchy third gear in my car, this has been sorted out by my dealer on the 3rd year warranty.

The service manager apologised to me as he didnt think there would be anything up with it, but if it was it would just be a synchro. He was suprised at what had actually happened, I'll give it a go at explaining anyways!

Basically, a part on the selector fork assembly for 3rd and 4th had snapped off and caused the problem. The service manager said this bit that broke off is made from plastic but its a part that keeps things in line. The first picture below highlights the offending plastic bit that broke off.

Because this piece broke off, the selection for third and fourth was out of line. This then caused the part in picture two, circled and numbered 9 to become worn badly and out of line. This in turn damaged the synchros- labelled 10 (number highlighted)- which meant that the third gear got very mashed (highlighted and numbered four).

In all my stilo has the 3rd/4th selectors and synchros replaced along with a new 3rd gear- all under 3rd year warranty costing fiat over £500.

If yours is doing it then I would get it seen to under warranty.

and now for piccies!

 

[Deckchair5]

Great result then BBS
Sure sounded like a synchro problem

Which bit is the plastic bit? Oh right I can see the ring in the left diagram now. Is that really made of plastic?

 

[Big Black Stilo]

Yep, its supposed to be made of plastic. That one failure caused the destruction of third, and 3rd/4th synchros.

If anyone elses is crunching, even slightly, I would get it seen to if the cars under warranty as i reckon the full cost of repair including labour wouldnt have been much shy of a grand.

 

[deffstar]

Yep, its supposed to be made of plastic. That one failure caused the destruction of third, and 3rd/4th synchros.

If anyone elses is crunching, even slightly, I would get it seen to if the cars under warranty as i reckon the full cost of repair including labour wouldnt have been much shy of a grand.

I've just bought a 35K 1.2 Stilo on 51 plate (so now out of warranty) but was told by the dealer (I bought an extended warranty with them) that Fiat have told them that the gear change is known to be slightly crunchy in this model and they have been advised to add/replace the fluid.

After reading the above, I think the dealers are trying to fob me off, but I will see how it drives when they bring it back this afternoon.

All good fun..... sigh