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Computer says "no" - what would you do?

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Computer says "no" - what would you do?

There's more to this than we'll probably ever know, I have my own thoughts but best not say.
It would require so many systems to all fail at once? and if set at say 70 and you requested off/slow down why was it at almost double?

It does pose a good question for key-less start, electronic steering wheel locking and electronic hand brake operation and automated manual gear boxes, in the good old days the key would turn everything off whilst still being able to turn the steering wheel and you could apply the hand brake at any speed, does anyone know what happens if you press "off" whilst driving(I've posted a similar question in another forum), does the car just start slowing down whilst able to steer, or just say no until you're slow enough and what happens to the steering, same with the electronic hand brake, bet you can't apply it at speed?
However in all cases you can knock the manual out of gear, and as far as I'm aware, you can select neutral on a conventional automatic, that said did this car have a DSG auto gearbox ?
If all else fails run the car along the crash barrier until its unable to carry on.
 
It is possible for an electronically controlled throttle to run to or stick in the fully open position. In this case the ECU would have no control over it. Brakes would still work though and there is no obvious reason why it not be possible to put the transmission into neutral. Of course it easy to think of things sat at home compared to being in a runaway car. As John says, if there is a Armco barrier you can gradually run the side of the car against it to slow a runaway. BMW used to, and may still, teach this on their advanced driving course. It's not just electronic cars that can run-away. I had a stuck throttle on a Renault 6TL many years ago. A screw had loosened on the carb but was stopped from moving further by a cam plate (for the acceelerator pump IIRC). However at very wide throttle settings the plate was past the cam. I had a long run up a hill (M6 or M42) at high throttle and lifted of on the down hill to find a stuck throttle. The screw had moved out past the cam and stopped it returning. I moved over to the hard shoulder and turned off the ignition. Fortunatly it was a straight road so the sterring lock did not engage when I switched off.
Its worth thinking about this and what you would do if it happened in your current car.

Robert G8RPI.
 
touching the brake pedal should disable Cruise operation.. no issue.

De-selecting cruise should also turn it off.

"intelligent" gearboxes.. a different story / complication . no idea

but the brakes..!!
it's an auto so has a foot pedal plenty big enough for your entire bodyweight / strength

should at least scrub off enough speed to then have a more controlled "end of run"

never thought through this scenario..but a runaway diesel has been discussed a few times.. not completely dissimilar..
 
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I seem to recall the official line is "user error". It's pretty hard to believe but if you thought it was happening perhaps logical thought would go out of the window. But he was with it enough to ring the police so it's an odd one.

Ways of getting out of it.
1st the standard ways of switching the cruise off. I.e. the off button, also the cancel button, also the brake should have the same effect. Then if it was a manual (which you have to assume it wasn't) pressing the clutch to the floor would have stopped both drive to the wheels and cancelled the cruise. That and jamming the brake pedal down as hard as you can should slow it down if not stop it.

Then you have the none conventional ways of switching it off. First of which is putting a swerve on, esp activation should cancel cruise, 2nd holding the start button on keyless cars should switch the engine off regardless of speed. 3rd air bag deployment should also do it (crash as gently as possible)

Having said all this none of it I'm sure matters to those involved for whom this will be a terrible time.
 
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A very odd story, clearly the technical analysis could not find any of the problems described, plenty of ways to cancel the cruise control and if it was a DSG it still had a selectable neutral.
Even breaking hard would drop the speed enough for the cruise control to error and turn off.
 
The safety inspector's report says the throttle was fully open and no braking was recorded. The cruise control will not operate the throttle pedal as it used to years ago, as it will be a fly-by-wire system. Sadly, looks like the driver was pressing the wrong pedal in his panic.
 
Some story! that's for sure. I totally agree there's a lot more to this than we will ever know. As said it's one thing going over what you could do in a situation like this from the comfort of your home, however, being able to use the phone! Braking would've some effect & obviously things you can press or whatever. I'm not familiar with this type/make of car.

I can only guess & agree, it looks like he panicked & pressed the wrong pedal, but he still had the savvy to use his phone. The phone bit has me wondering in overtime. A very curious, sad story indeed.
 
Makes me sort of grateful that my car is so basic and primitive in comparison. Less to potentially go wrong in such a horrible way.

Very sad to hear what happened to this man. God only knows what goes through your mind in such a situation. Minutes must feel like hours.

Hope the European High Court doesn't let VW off with yet another tragedy :-/ because I can't see how this is anything other than a catastrophic failure of multiple likely electronic equipment.
 
John202020 said:
There's more to this than we'll probably ever know, I have my own thoughts but best not say.
Click to expand...

Totally agree.

The transcript of the phone call doesn't suggest the driver was panicking, and his (possibly) calm question to the operator "Do you want me to try the hand brake?" reinforces this argument. Of course, the transcript doesn't indicate his tone of voice.

As with John202020, I have my view of what happened, but it would be inappropriate to post it here.

Condolences to his family.
.
 
Auto or manual - it'll swap back to neutral
Sticking the Handbrake and Footbrake on together would cause wheels to lock up (Rear atleast if fronts dont lock due to abs)
The car would slow
Failing that as i said - it'd require just about every system to go wrong at once....

None the less - **** happens and no some very expensive funeral costs

ziggy
 
SB1500 said:
Makes me sort of grateful that my car is so basic and primitive in comparison. Less to potentially go wrong in such a horrible way.

Very sad to hear what happened to this man. God only knows what goes through your mind in such a situation. Minutes must feel like hours.

Hope the European High Court doesn't let VW off with yet another tragedy :-/ because I can't see how this is anything other than a catastrophic failure of multiple likely electronic equipment.
Click to expand...

My Renault 4 with the stuck open throttle was a lot more basic than a Panda. This has hit headlines because it's a "computer" failure, with phone call transcript and pictures but brakes, suspension and steering failure related accidents happen ever day.


Robert G8RPI.
 
g8rpi said:
My Renault 4 with the stuck open throttle was a lot more basic than a Panda. This has hit headlines because it's a "computer" failure, with phone call transcript and pictures but brakes, suspension and steering failure related accidents happen ever day.


Robert G8RPI.
Click to expand...


My point was I could pull the key, push in the clutch/put it in neutral, gradually apply the handbrake etc A few different almost separate systems - whereas in the OPs article the common denominator was the electrical actuation of those systems that could have failed.
 
SB1500 said:
- whereas in the OPs article the common denominator was the electrical actuation of those systems that could have failed.
Click to expand...


If you look at the article you'll see that it was deemed unlikely that there was a total failure of the onboard systems as there would need to be multiple systems that are separate, fail at the same time.

Brakes are mechanical and would have still worked, gear box could have been put in neutral, even a DSG auto as it's a mechanical selector.
Multiple points should cancel the cruise control, and the analysis of the car showed the car was at full throttle and correctly recording its speed despite what the transcript of the call.
 
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portland_bill said:
Sadly, looks like the driver was pressing the wrong pedal in his panic.
Click to expand...

I recall reading about this phenomenon, and the human tendency is to jam the foot down on the wrong pedal (i.e. accelerator pedal) even harder when the car fails to stop, not realising the crucial mistake.

When I first got my TwinAir 500 and was still learning the "feel" of the car, I had a brief moment of panic when I was doing a 3-point turn and accidentally stepped on the accelerator pedal instead of the brake pedal -- I remember my panicked thoughts were: "WTF, brake pedal isn't working?!" but luckily I quickly realised my mistake and found the right pedal before things got out of control :eek:

I can imagine how quickly things can go wrong though! :cry:
 
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Occasionally I get this with a learner. They'll push the brake instead of the accelerator, and stall the car because it won't move. After a restart, they push the brake harder, thinking it is the accelerator, getting more and more cross at it. Getting them to let go, pause and think can sometimes be difficult. Can upset following traffic, but with a fully liveried AA school car, there is a clue we might not act as expected.
Not had one push the accelerator full down yet, but at least I have a brake and clutch and can overcome that.
 
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