Technical Coil Pack(ed up)?

[default_user]

My wife has an 04 reg 1.2 Punto. Tonight when she got home from work she complained that it would go no faster than 40mph for the last five miles or so. I took it for a quick drive and it was immediately apparent that it wasn't firing on all cylinders.

The engine management light is currently on and has been for a few days and it's come on a couple of times in the recent past and always with the same fault code. Can't remember exactly what it was but something to do with the coil pack so I'm assuming that the coil pack is now failing and won't last much longer. (I am going to check all the plugs and leads though, just to be sure, before I change it.)

My questions are:

How much would it cost for a replacement coil pack?
Are they available as an aftermarket part or only from FIAT?
What about 2nd hand parts? Are they easily available and relatively cheap compared with new?

 

[default_user]

Just scrolled down the page after posting and noticed a link to coil packs on eBay so just had a look. It seems I can get a new coil pack for £25. I can live with that, however one of the auctions I looked at had the following note:

A COMMON FAILING PART ON MK 2 PUNTO MODELS IS THE IGNITION ECM SPARK CONTROL MODULE...THIS CAN GIVE THE SYMPTOM OF COIL FAILURE,THIS SHOULD BE CHECKED PRIOR TO COIL REPLACEMENT...AS ONCE SUPPLIED AND INSTALLED WE CANNOT ACCEPT RETURNS ON COILS NOT REQUIRED....ANY COILS ORDERED IN ERROR,STILL SEALED IN ORIGINAL PACKAGING AND UNFITTED WILL BE ACCEPTED FOR RETURN...THANKS.


Anyone know how to check the Spark Control Module?

 

[Dark_Crusader]

My wife has an 04 reg 1.2 Punto. Tonight when she got home from work she complained that it would go no faster than 40mph for the last five miles or so. I took it for a quick drive and it was immediately apparent that it wasn't firing on all cylinders.

The engine management light is currently on and has been for a few days and it's come on a couple of times in the recent past and always with the same fault code. Can't remember exactly what it was but something to do with the coil pack so I'm assuming that the coil pack is now failing and won't last much longer. (I am going to check all the plugs and leads though, just to be sure, before I change it.)

My questions are:

How much would it cost for a replacement coil pack?
Are they available as an aftermarket part or only from FIAT?
What about 2nd hand parts? Are they easily available and relatively cheap compared with new?

I know on a Mk1 theyare fairly easy to get replacements for I am not so sure if this is the case for the Mk 2? Before rushing down to Fiat try your local scrappers see if they have some second-hand ones (around £20 make sure theyv'e been tested before you buy otherwise wasting your cash!), swap them over with your existing ones and see if it is the actual coils that are causing you grief. If the coils work ok then it's gonna be something else, check your HT's aswell and spark plugs if not serviced recently and examine condition....

 

[T14086]

Anyone know how to check the Spark Control Module?

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-guides/52068-punto-coil-ecu-checks.html

 

[default_user]

T14086 (if that IS your real name), you're a star. I did try searching in the Punto section but didn't think to have a look in the guides section. Thanks very much.

 

[T14086]

T14086 (if that IS your real name)

I'd think i'd be pretty pis5ed at my parents if it was!

 

[default_user]

Update:

I changed both coils for new ones because it was so cheap and easy and everything was fine for week or so but now the same symptoms have come back. I thought one of the new coil packs had failed so I put the old working one back on and it was fine again for a few days but now it's the same again.

Reading lots of posts about ECUs and ignition modules has got me confused. Is there a separate ECU just to control ignition or is it the main ECU that controls ignition? If there is a separate one where is it located and what does it look like?

 

[T14086]

have you not read my guide on the coils/ECU

 

[default_user]

"Seems to be alot of posts concerning the punto ECU/coil failures & new members to the forum unaware of what the search button is for So here goes...the 'definate' guide to the great punto ECU/coil failure!

SAFETY...high voltages involved people so be careful

(1)First thing to establish is which coil is not firing,
Easily done,simply disconnect the 2-pin connector on either one of the coils & try to start the [COLOR=#f77e1d !important][COLOR=#f77e1d !important]car[/COLOR][/COLOR]...if it still runs(a.k.a. like a bag of s*it)then the coil you have disconnected is the one not firing.
If it does not start then the one you did not disconnect is the one not firing....simple

(2)Is the coil or ECU at fault?
Bit trickier but not exactly rocket science! After determining which coil is not firing(see step 1)disconnect the 2-pin connector on that coil(if not already done so)it helps if you remove the little yellow plastic cover at the end of the plug as it makes 'probing' the terminals abit easier.
You will need prefably a test light or a power probe.I have never tried it with a multimeter as I doubt they(either [COLOR=#f77e1d !important][COLOR=#f77e1d !important]LCD[/COLOR][/COLOR] or needle type) will be fast enough to sense the negative trigger.
One of the 2 terminals should be live(12V+)only with the [COLOR=#f77e1d !important][COLOR=#f77e1d !important]engine [COLOR=#f77e1d !important]running[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR],make sure you refit the 2-pin connector on the good coil.
On the other terminal(again engine running)you should have a negative(12V-)trigger/pulse,you can test this by putting the test light [COLOR=#f77e1d !important][COLOR=#f77e1d !important]clip[/COLOR][/COLOR] onto the 'positive' battery post(thus it will light up when earthed)& the bulb should flicker very fast & 'uniform',if it does(& the plugs/leads are OK)then you need a coil.If it does not light up then the ECU is not sending out a negative trigger & you need a ECU..but first check this wire is ok(no water on ECU plugs) & not shorted out on the [COLOR=#f77e1d !important][COLOR=#f77e1d !important]throttle [COLOR=#f77e1d !important]cable[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] holder or anywhere else...unlikely but I have seen this a few times.

(3)If the car will not start up then you can still do the above checks on 'crank' assuming you have a assistant/wife/passer-by to crank it over for you.
If you have no 12v+ to either coil then check relay R9 & fuse 22.

And thats it"

Yes.

It just mentions "the ECU". I'm getting the impression from other things I've read (like the quote from an eBay seller in my 2nd post on this thread which mentions "IGNITION ECM SPARK CONTROL MODULE") that there is a separate computer that controls the ignition. Is there? Or like I have asked, is it the main ECU?

If I carry out your test (which I haven't yet because I'm unsure of what I'm doing and don't want to make more problems) will this tell me which ECU (if they are separate) needs fixing?

Or am I just not explaining properly?

 

[fingers99]

There is no seperate ECU to control the spark. which ECU do you have, anyway?

 

[default_user]

I don't know what ECU I have just yet, I'll need to check. Does it make a difference?

My wife is still using the car to get to work and back and the problem comes and goes. Sometimes just leaving it for a while or giving the throttle some stick will get it firing on all four again. If there was a problem with the ECU could it be intermittent?

OK, so doing the test specified by T14086 will tell me if THE MAIN ECU needs to be fixed/replaced then, yes?

 

[pinkbay]

hey is it an easy job to replace coil pack any help
cheers
adam

 

[fingers99]

I don't know what ECU I have just yet, I'll need to check. Does it make a difference?

My wife is still using the car to get to work and back and the problem comes and goes. Sometimes just leaving it for a while or giving the throttle some stick will get it firing on all four again. If there was a problem with the ECU could it be intermittent?

OK, so doing the test specified by T14086 will tell me if THE MAIN ECU needs to be fixed/replaced then, yes?

Yes. In so far as the SPI and later MPI ECUs are pretty much bullet proof. A pic will give us a clue!

There are lots of things that can cause an intermittent misfire. The ECU related ones are pretty easy to recognise from a code read.

There is -- as far as the engine is concerned -- only one ECU. The test should reveal all.

 

[fingers99]

hey is it an easy job to replace coil pack any help
cheers
adam

Very easy. Disconnect the old one, undo 3 bolts, pull it off, replace with new one (use a new O ring) do up the bolts, plug in the electrics (the coil pack even has markings for the ignition leads) job done.

 

[default_user]

Cheers for the responses guys. I've already tried changing the coils. See post number 7. (There are two in a housing on the right side of the head held in by four bolts each. No o-rings.)

I'm away from home at the moment but I'll be back on Thursday so I'll post some pictures then.

 

[fingers99]

(There are two in a housing on the right side of the head held in by four bolts each. No o-rings.)

That's -- I'm guessing -- because you have a SuperFIRE (04) engine. The earlier FIRE engines have the coil packs on the head -- as it were on an extension of the plane of the cam. They have O rings.

 

[D4nny8oy]

That's -- I'm guessing -- because you have a SuperFIRE (04) engine. The earlier FIRE engines have the coil packs on the head -- as it were on an extension of the plane of the cam. They have O rings.

You're talking about the coilpack housing bracket which bolts to the end of the head (where a distributor used to be).

The coils themselves are held on by 4x 4mm allen-head bolts each.

 

[default_user]

UPDATE:

OK guys the situation is now serious. For the last four weeks the car has run fine with the odd hiccup where it would only fire on two cylinders but stopping and restarting or blipping the throttle hard would "cure" it. It's now permanent with only two cylinders now firing.

I've swapped the coil packs around and determined that the coil packs are OK.

I've checked the output on the two pin connector to the coil not firing and I have a constant 12V on one pin but nothing on the other pin. (I used a bulb to check them; lit brightly and steady on one pin, not even a flicker on the other pin).

Now, according to T14086 this means that my ECU is faulty. But before I send it off to be reprogrammed I have a couple more questions:

1. Where is it and is it easy to remove?

2. Is there a way to test the output to the coil packs directly where it comes from the ECU? Maybe there is a fault with the wiring rather than the ECU? I'm thinking that if I can do a resistance test on the wire from the ECU plug to the plug on the coil it'll tell me if there's a break in it or not.

 

[default_user]

OK, I've answered one of my questions myself. I've found the ECU, removed it to check the model number and put it back on for now.

Searching the 'net I found these people - www.ecutesting.com - who can rebuild it for approx £130 but I need to send it to them, wait for them to fix it and then send it back. Optimistically this is going to take a minimum of five days, which is very awkward for me as we really can't do without the car as we both work shifts and live a long way from work.

As it is, I'm limping the car a few miles when I'm at work to meet a colleague who I travel in with so that the missus can use my car.

Looks like we'll have to forfeit a week of my wife's wages (she's an agency worker so doesn't get paid if she's off) or hire a car for a week. Either way this is going to cost us hundreds. Gotta love modern living eh?

 

[T14086]

Now, according to T14086 this means that my ECU is faulty. But before I send it off to be reprogrammed I have a couple more questions:
Is there a way to test the output to the coil packs directly where it comes from the ECU? Maybe there is a fault with the wiring rather than the ECU? I'm thinking that if I can do a resistance test on the wire from the ECU plug to the plug on the coil it'll tell me if there's a break in it or not.

Yes,you can scope out the negative trigger pattern from the ECU, best to do this at the coil.

Searching the 'net I found these people - www.ecutesting.com - who can rebuild it for approx £130 but I need to send it to them, wait for them to fix it and then send it back.

Brought my last one off ebay for £75+5 postage, brand new.