Technical Clutch pedal not working after clutch replacement.

[Jdazz]

Hello everyone,

I have an issue with my fiat Panda 1.2 Dynamic and would like to know if someone has experienced something similar and how to fix it.

My car needs the clutch replaced and I am doing the fitting myself.

The issue I've got is that after replacing the clutch, the clutch pedal does not disengage the clutch. It feels as if it gets blocked by something. I have already damaged a slave cylinder by applying brute force to the pedal.

I then came to the conclusion that the part I was supplied was not the correct for my car as the pressure plate looks different from the one removed from the car. The new clutch pressure plates spring diaphragm has 18 spring blades and the one that came off the car only has 12.

I bought another clutch kit, this time a like for like to the one removed, fitted it and to my disappointment the same problem still persists.

I have now come to the conclusion that it is not the parts that are the problem but something that I must be doing wrong. I have checked everything and the only thing I have noticed is that when I torque the pressure plate retaining bolts to the 15Nm specified by the Haynes manual, the spring diaphragm compresses and stiffens a lot.

Has anyone had a similar issue when changing the clutch?

Any help much appreciated.


Kind regards.

 

[jackwhoo]

The friction plate only goes on correctly one way round.
It is normal and correct for the pressure plate bolts to compress the disc spring in the pressure plate.

 

[jackwhoo]

Did you fit a new release bearing?

 

[Jdazz]

Friction plate is the right way around and yes new release bearing also fitted.

 

[koalar]

clutch pressure plates spring diaphragm has 18 spring blades and the one that came off the car only has 12.

Normal different brands have different number makes no differencr

I have checked everything and the only thing I have noticed is that when I torque the pressure plate retaining bolts to the 15Nm

I used 10Nm but this will not be your issue

Have you ordered the correct clutch

Theres two different sizes for the 1.2 69hp ones are a couple of mm larger


Does the release arm look to be in the right location

 

[koalar]

What was the reason for changing the clutch, slipping, stiff, juddering

This nylon end is still present? Some new slaves don't come without it and you have to swap over from the old one

Let's try and find out if it's a mechanical problem inside the bell housing


Disconnect the slave, have someone push the piston back while you try the pedal

Also like this the clutch release fork should be nice and loose

 

[Jdazz]

What was the reason for changing the clutch, slipping, stiff, juddering

This nylon end is still present? Some new slaves don't come without it and you have to swap over from the old oneView attachment 423998



Let's try and find out if it's a mechanical problem inside the bell housing


Disconnect the slave, have someone push the piston back while you try the pedal

Also like this the clutch release fork should be nice and loose

Hello,

The reason I am replacing the clutch is because it failed. Not much left of it. I installed the worn clutch today and tightened the bolts to 15Nm to see how that felt and although there was travel at the pedal, it is not as light as it was before removal.
I also noticed that when I put the worn clutch against the flywheel, the pressure plate sits flush against the flywheel. This is of course due to the friction plate being completely worn. When I put the new clutch against the flywheel there is a gap of about 7mm between the pressure plate and the flywheel, when I tighten the screws to 15Nm this gap is no more but the diagram spring compresses so much it looses its dome shape and becomes very stiff and there is no travel at the clutch pedal. I have already busted 2 slave cylinders out of frustration.

The plastic bit is present in the slave cylinder and there is no air on the line.

Today I installed the new clutch kit and very lightly tightened the pressure plate bolts by feel and using loctite. There was a gap of about 4mm between the pressure plate and the flywheel. I fear this will be my last try with this car and after spending money on clutches and lots of hours on labour I just can't think of what it could be.

 

[Jdazz]

What was the reason for changing the clutch, slipping, stiff, juddering

This nylon end is still present? Some new slaves don't come without it and you have to swap over from the old oneView attachment 423998



Let's try and find out if it's a mechanical problem inside the bell housing


Disconnect the slave, have someone push the piston back while you try the pedal

Also like this the clutch release fork should be nice and loose

Here are some numbers found on my gearbox and flywheel.

 

[jackwhoo]

With everything put back together .pedal not pressed.If the clutch fork / arm is not close enough to the slave cylinder the piston in the slave cylinder will reach its end stop before releasing clutch. Pedal will feel hard.
I think you may have an issue with clutch fork and or the part it pivots on leading to the slave piston being fully out or nearly fully out before pedal pressed.
Without photos of what you have it's very hard to tell and pretty much a guessing game.

 

[koalar]

Is that a repacement flywheel

Is your car pre 2009

All the gearboxes should be the same except for the 100hp

 

[jackwhoo]

Anyone have a pic of the correct clutch fork? And which way round it fits

 

[koalar]

With everything put back together .pedal not pressed.If the clutch fork / arm is not close enough to the slave cylinder the piston in the slave cylinder will reach its end stop before releasing clutch. Pedal will feel hard.
I think you may have an issue with clutch fork and or the part it pivots on leading to the slave piston being fully out or nearly fully out before pedal pressed.
Without photos of what you have it's very hard to tell and pretty much a guessing game.

I posted a video of the correct arm position with a ruler


You should be able to compare

 

[jackwhoo]

@koalar
Very much liked that video of gearbox type in question...above and beyond of you to do that, Thanks.

 

[jackwhoo]

Replacing The Clutch Fork On A Fiat 500 1.2 8v

When replacing the clutch on a Fiat 500 1.2 8v it's a good idea to also replace the clutch fork and bushes.

www.fiatworkshop.co.uk

I dint know if that's exactly like the original posters box but fingers xed

 

[Jdazz]

With everything put back together .pedal not pressed.If the clutch fork / arm is not close enough to the slave cylinder the piston in the slave cylinder will reach its end stop before releasing clutch. Pedal will feel hard.
I think you may have an issue with clutch fork and or the part it pivots on leading to the slave piston being fully out or nearly fully out before pedal pressed.
Without photos of what you have it's very hard to tell and pretty much a guessing game.

Thank you for your input. I will take a picture of the clutch fork, where it sits and post it tomorrow.

 

[koalar]

but the diagram spring compresses so much it looses its dome shape

That's not right

Here's a new one fitted

Kind of narrows it down to

Flywheel or clutch

 

[Jdazz]

Is that a repacement flywheel

Is your car pre 2009

All the gearboxes should be the same except for the 100hp

That's the flywheel that came out of the car. It is a 2004. None interference engine I believe.

 

[DaveMcT]

The pressure spring finger angle will reduce when the plate is screwed down. It's normal but enough to trap a parallel alignment tool. I start screwing mine down and pull the tool when the fingers start to grip it. The bolts are then torqued up. The release bearing releases that spring pressure so the clutch can slip. Do note the clutch uses locating dowels AND the screws.

The release bearing fits with the shiny side towards the clutch (sorry if this is obvious)

Damage to the release fork should be obvious. The inner arms on the release fork should be flat and sit just less than 90 degrees to the shaft when no pressure is applied. The top arm is splined to the shaft. I can't remember if it has a master spline. So (if it's been removed), might need adjusting to the correct spline.

Release fork bushes can be replaced but they have to be broken out. Mine were not worn loose so I've kept away from that job.

 

[koalar]

I repeat

The fingers do not flattern to any noticeable amount on the panda 1.2,1.1 or 1.4

If they do the release arm will be in the wrong position, I have already posted a video of this distance, (my car panda 1.2)

This will causr the slave cylinder to run out of travel and smash the circlip from the bottom

Some cars start domed and end up flat by design. But this is not a toyota race car or a land-rover we are talking about a Panda

LUK, AP and transmech I have taken out and/or fitted have all been the same here someone else's video same fiat clutch

 

[DaveMcT]

Im sorry its always me disagreeing with you, but your comment is not correct.

The clutch spring WILL ALWAYS flatten when its tightened. Not much and obviously not going flat. But the circle diameter between the finger ends absolutely does reduce. If it did not there would be no spring pressure on the clutch friction plate. My aluminium alignment tool has the scars to prove it.