Technical Clutch bite point almost at top of pedal travel

[PacoJones]

Morning,

I'm finding that the bite point of the clutch on my 1.2 Dynamic (2007) is right at the top of the pedal travel, almost at the point where you've taken your foot off the pedal. The slightest pressure on the pedal when driving causes the revs to rise.

I can find plenty of comments on here relating to the opposite issue, the pedal being almost fully depressed at the bite point, but not much on my problem. The car had a little old lady as a previous owner and only has 24,000 miles on it, so I'd hope the clutch is still good.

Should I try a fluid top up as a first step?

Thanks.

 

[Goudrons]

Clutch problems can show itself in two ways on the pedel.

First is when you can't seem to push the pedal down far enough to disengage the engine from the gearbox.
What has happened is the hydraulics can't push the pressure plate far enough out to let the friction plate slip.
This could be because of the friction plate wearing but the pressure plate has taken up the slack but the throwout bearing is returning to it's normal position or there's a leak or lack of fluid.

The second is a high biting point.
The plate has worn thin and the pressure plate springs and throwout bearing have taken up the slack until it only needs the slightest pressure on the pedal for the pressure to come off the friction disc and to disengage the engine from the gearbox.
This is usually a sign the hydraulic part is ok, it's just the friction plate is so thin it doesn't take much effort to release the pressure on it. Eventually the pressure plate won't be able to and it starts slipping under load.

So it depends on how it all works, one way is the throwout bearing and pressure plate take up the slack so there doesn't need much pressure on it for the worn clutch to slip.
The other is the throwout bearing turns to a normal resting position but the plate is worn thin, this requires more travel of the bearing to take the pressure off the friction plate, so your foot needs to move further.

 

[bugsymike]

Morning,

I'm finding that the bite point of the clutch on my 1.2 Dynamic (2007) is right at the top of the pedal travel, almost at the point where you've taken your foot off the pedal. The slightest pressure on the pedal when driving causes the revs to rise.

I can find plenty of comments on here relating to the opposite issue, the pedal being almost fully depressed at the bite point, but not much on my problem. The car had a little old lady as a previous owner and only has 24,000 miles on it, so I'd hope the clutch is still good.

Should I try a fluid top up as a first step?

Thanks.

The symptoms you describe to me are a knackered clutch/worn out. Sorry .
Regarding fluid etc. lack of fluid, air in system, etc. etc. will give poor engagement i.e. grating going into gears, not slipping.

 

[PacoJones]

OK, that makes sense, thanks to both of you, deffo looking like a new clutch is needed.

Eurocarparts have a Valeo three piece clutch kit at 78 quid and a Transmech one at 57 quid. Any preference? Is the Valeo one likely to be OEM?

And is there a How To anywhere on doing a clutch change?

Thanks again.

 

[bugsymike]

OK, that makes sense, thanks to both of you, deffo looking like a new clutch is needed.

Eurocarparts have a Valeo three piece clutch kit at 78 quid and a Transmech one at 57 quid. Any preference? Is the Valeo one likely to be OEM?

And is there a How To anywhere on doing a clutch change?

Thanks again.

Valeo for quality.
Re fitting instructions, I don't believe there is anything special about Pandas in general for fitting clutches if you are reasonably competent, however I am sure there are many owners on the Forum who can advise, failing that try uTube video.
Just remember as always when working under heavy objects make sure it is safely supported before going underneath .
If you are not sure it is much safer to pay someone competent to do it, as they say "you are a long time dead!!!"

 

[DaveMcT]

Get the clutch from Shop 4 Parts. It will be better quality and costs are not silly.
This is their clutch for 1.2 Panda https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=27015

I believe there is a clutch how-to. You'll have to search the forum.

I am about to post a how - to for replacing the input shaft seal (it's daft not to) and the bearing if that's needed as well.

 

[PacoJones]

That's all very helpful, again!

Not planning on doing it myself, I have a friend who's a Subaru Legacy guru that works on my JDM Legacy, he also does plenty of other cars as well, so I'll be taking it to him, but just wondered if there's anything he should know beforehand.

I'll keep an eye out for the post on the input shaft seal replacement.

Thanks!

 

[DaveMcT]

I jacked up the car and supported it on solid axle stands. I then used a strong steel tube from scuttle to radiator front frame with notched wood battens to protect the metal and stop the tube(s) slipping. A ratchet strap provided the support for gearbox as it was lowered off the engine. The engine (clutch end) was supported by a second tube sitting on the same battens and a strap.

The gearbox is surprisingly heavy and its near impossible to balance on a jack. The ratchet strap method solves that issue.
Support engine with a ratchet strap under clutch end take care how it's positioned so you don't damage anything or allow it to slip.
Remove bolts (and nut) holding engine to gearbox and dog bone mounting. Dont forget the hidden M8 bolt that holds the starter motor. Leave an easy to access bolt at the front. The bare stud at the back serves that side.
Put strap around gearbox up against bell-housing and take up slack. Take weight on jack. Disconnect shifter cables and reverse gear wire. Disconnect gearbox mount from car and remove bracket from gearbox. Now remove those last two bell housing to engine bolts.
Lower the jack a little to test the strap tension It is now supporting the gearbox.
Pull the box off the engine It will be swinging free. Use the jack to take the weight and loosen the ratchet strap a few clicks. Lower the jack a little and the gearbox will come down on the strap. Repeat until the box is low enough to stand on wood blocks.

Refitting the box with this method allows you to easily rotate the box while the strap takes the weight. It's near impossible on a jack as there is nothing to stop the box falling off the jack and the jack gets in the way.

 

[koalar]

That's all very helpful, again!

Not planning on doing it myself, I have a friend who's a Subaru Legacy guru that works on my JDM Legacy, he also does plenty of other cars as well, so I'll be taking it to him, but just wondered if there's anything he should know beforehand.

I'll keep an eye out for the post on the input shaft seal replacement.

Thanks!

No it a straightforward job on a lift. There just enough room to pull the gearbox back on a telescopic transmission jack and change the clutch without dropping it down

There should be no noticeable side to movement of the input shaft worth checking

Unfortunately paying for someone else means your paying for time. Doing it yourself changing the three oil seals is a bit of a no brainer as the are under a fiver when I did mine.

Hammering it and someone passing the tools I have seen a Punto clutch changed in just over 1/2 hour

 

[DaveMcT]

A car lift makes the job 10x as easy. This of us with a trolley jack, axle stands and no help have to get creative.

 

[bugsymike]

No it a straightforward job on a lift. There just enough room to pull the gearbox back on a telescopic transmission jack and change the clutch without dropping it down

There should be no noticeable side to movement of the input shaft worth checking

Unfortunately paying for someone else means your paying for time. Doing it yourself changing the three oil seals is a bit of a no brainer as the are under a fiver when I did mine.

Hammering it and someone passing the tools I have seen a Punto clutch changed in just over 1/2 hour

In the 1970s as a Dealer we used to change Lada (Fiat 124) clutches in around 1.5 hours when other garages could be on it all day.
It helped us knowing to remove the cam cover and front ex pipe then engine could be tipped enough to slide the gearbox along the intermediate exhaust pipe. Plus we knew how the plastic crown held the top of gear lever on.
Mk 1 Ford Transit clutches used to be 30 minutes.
All without working on commission, just for the challenge, oh! to be young again .

 

[koalar]

Not planning on doing it myself, I have a friend who's a Subaru Legacy guru that works on my JDM Legacy, he also does plenty of other cars as well, so I'll be taking it to him, but just wondered if there's anything he should know beforehand.

Its being done at a garage I believe, although the wording is vague

A car lift makes the job 10x as easy. This of us with a trolley jack, axle stands and no help have to get creative.

So no need to get creative

Plenty of other threads on changing a clutch on a drive with minimal tools

 

[PacoJones]

Thanks for the extra info, I'll pass it on when I take it in to him, he has a four post lift, very reasonable charges and way more idea than me what he's doing, so it's worth it to know it will be done quickly and well.

 

[koalar]

Just for fun



If you do them regularly