Technical Check vehicle protection system

[Bikernut]

Hello all,my first post on the forum,although ive been a member for a while.I have a 2007 Stilo 1.4 16v Active Sport that i bought 9 years ago.
Until Saturday it had never let me down or given me any issues,hence why i`ve never needed to post.
So on Saturday,went to start the car and its turning over but wont fire.(ran fine before this).Looked at the dash and it has the engine management warning lit and the padlock warning,along with the ominous "check vehicle protection warning".For some odd reason the outside temp is showing -40 aswell (its about +15c).
So i do lots of reading up about possible causes,pull everything apart,clean and check all contacts on the battery,the computer,the fuse box and the ECU.Use spare key and try a antenna from my daughters Grande punto...Still the same.:bang:.
So while i was doing all this,one thing i noticed was everytime the battery was disconnected and reconnected,when the ignition was switched on,only the engine management light was lit,the padlock and CVPS error was not showing.However it would still not start and when the ignition was turned off,then on again,both the engine management light and the CVPS errors were present.(shouldn`t the engine management light still go off with the CVPS error?)
This leads me to think that it is actually the ECU module under the bonnet that has gone bad and is not communicating with the main computer.
I doubt it being the main computer that is bad as there is absolutely no other issues (apart from the errant outside temp reading)..The engine management light did come on occasionally before this episode,however it did not affect the running of the car and went away on its own accord.
Would anyone agree with me on this,is there any other instances of the ECU failing?as im about to order a virginised ECU from ebay
Thanks in advance.

 

[roll]

Have you tried emergency start? (immobiliser bypas using pedals to enter the code)

 

[Bikernut]

Unfortunately i dont have the code

 

[jockmr2]

ECU in engine bay,are a known fault with stilo models,the heat from engine causes the solder to melt over time,causing the pins to drop down,take off engine ecu,open it up,and check to make sure all connection pins in right position,if they have dropped down from circuit board you can just re-solder them back into correct position,its nearly always the fault with electrical faults on stilo models,silly design putting ecu on top off a hot engine,got to love those Italians

 

[tessiedog]

Is it not mainly the 1.6 that suffers from the engine heat/ECU melt problem due to its location. I thought that the 1.4 which Bikernut has has the ecu better placed.......?
Roll..... could you explain a bit more about the emergency start that you mention?
Sorry, don't have anything constructive to add to this thread, but will be following with interest since I've got what I think is maybe a similar issue and am particularly looking to see what happens if Bikernut fits the new ECU.

 

[Artermis]

It is indeed the 1.6 that suffers with ECU issues; the other models are typically unaffected by the heat soak issued experienced by the 1.6 but that's not to say the ECU hasn't developed a fault. It's very, very rare but not unheard of.

What I suspect is more likely is that the antenna for the immobiliser, which picks up the microchip in the key, has broken. This is somewhat more common.

What I recommend you do is unscrew the bottom steering column cowl panel and remove in order to gain closer access to the ignition barrel.

Take your second, spare key and hold this against the side and rear of the ignition barrel whilst trying to start the car. If it works it points to the antenna in the ignition barrel having failed.

If you don't have a second key you could try getting a blank cut and doing the same, holding your known working key to the barrel (although this has cost outlay and may not work if this isnt the fault, of course), or you can disassemble your key, take out the small grain of rice sized microchip and hold that to the ignition barrel. Whatever you do don't lose it though!

 

[ruilima]

There are several youtube videos regarding the ecu heating and the respective fix, you can try to find one, i know there is 1 that explains everything, but i cant post the link, but its easy to diagnose, just remove the ecu connector(with the battery disconnected) and see if the pins are on the same heigth

 

[Bikernut]

Ive attached a photo of the inside of the ECU unit.Its covered in some kind of clear sticky rubbery gel,probably a vibration and heat proctection.The few connections that i can actually see seem to be intact.Theres not a lot else i can do to it.
As far as i know the ECU is in the same place as the 1.6 isnt it? On top of the engine with all the heat and vibrations hitting it.
Ive tried a different antenna with no luck,using both keys aswell.
ECU will be here tomorrow hopefully,but if not it will be Tuesday(bank holiday monday)
Will post on the result.

 

[misu]

If the defect is in the ECU it's hard to walk in it, it's not like 1.6 you can work in it parts, change it etc .. this ecu must be removed that paste and it's a lot hard to repair.
I had this problem I went to the microprocessor to the ECU and changed the ECU to another.

 

[Bikernut]

So,tried the ECU unit,din`t work...same error.
Bought a complete set secondhand,same car,ECU,Main body computer,lock set,keys,antenna and even the clocks for good measure.
No joy,exactly the same.
Im still getting the odd outside temp reading of -40,but shows correct temp on first turn of key after the battery has been disconnected,but goes to -40 after the computer does its checks.
Im stumped by this.
The only thing of any note that i can find is the voltage at the antenna ring is 3.45 volts.
Seems a tad low,but i cant find any info what this should actually be.
Looking increasingly likely i could be scrapping it soon,such a shame aswell as its only done 64000 miles.

EDIT...Just checked the antenna voltage on a grande Punto and that is the same @ 3.45 volts.

 

[Artermis]

What sort of state is the fuse board in? They can oxidise and on rare occasion cause error; might be worth going round doing some contact cleaning, including the earth strap.

It is sounding increasingly like you've got a short in the loom somewhere though, which can be the devil's own job to chase down, I'm afraid.

 

[Bikernut]

What sort of state is the fuse board in? They can oxidise and on rare occasion cause error; might be worth going round doing some contact cleaning, including the earth strap.

It is sounding increasingly like you've got a short in the loom somewhere though, which can be the devil's own job to chase down, I'm afraid.

Yes m8,this is how im thinking myself.
I acquired the emergency bypass code from Fiat today (free of charge ).
It started straight away and runs fine.
However.....
1. NO power steering.
2. NO rev counter.
3. NO temp gauge.
4. Battery light ON (is charging)
5.Engine light ON
6. Immobiliser light ON.
7. Handbrake light ON (all the time)
8. Fuel gauge WORKING
9. External temp -40 (20c today).

If someone with a bit of Stilo wiring knowledge could narrow the common denominator off all those functions i would be ever so grateful.
For now i`m going to pull the fuse box apart under the bonnet and clean it all up.
This is NOT going to beat me .

 

[Artermis]

I'd say you're on the right lines mate.

Common denominator for me is battery / power. The Stilo is massively sensitive to it's voltage; if it drops even a little bit below what it should be (think duff alternator, battery, poor connections) then you'll get just heaps and heaps and heaps of spurious fault messages and stuff freaking out.

Battery needs to be 12.5v or greater when the car is off and needs to show 14v or greater with engine running.

Also check the earths haven't corroded.

 

[Bikernut]

Cleaned up the fuse box,no joy.
So today decided to pull the battery tray and fuse box off the car and check the earth from engine to chassis,even though multimeter said its earthing ok.
Pulled it all off and this is what i found....Hanging on by just a few cords.
I cant say for certain yet if this is the cause,as on tickover,voltage at the battery was 14.1v,and starter motor worked ok.
But there`s certainly a good chance that it is.
Will update when i source a new cable.

 

[Artermis]

Cleaned up the fuse box,no joy.
So today decided to pull the battery tray and fuse box off the car and check the earth from engine to chassis,even though multimeter said its earthing ok.
Pulled it all off and this is what i found....Hanging on by just a few cords.
I cant say for certain yet if this is the cause,as on tickover,voltage at the battery was 14.1v,and starter motor worked ok.
But there`s certainly a good chance that it is.
Will update when i source a new cable.

Well... whatever happens that's f**ked ain't it! So well worth the replacement. You might find making up your own earth strap to be cheaper and quicker than trying to order a dealer part.

Hope it works out for you. You're right though, it's a very good likelihood it is your issue (and I did say check the earth :-D haha)

 

[Bikernut]

Unfortunately...no luck .
Managed to find a new earth under the dash behind the onboard computer,but that is also fine.
It really is strange,i don`t have any power steering,yet the red steering wheel icon goes off as it should.However when i disconnect the switch feed/can bus connector (not the main power cable) to the steering pump,the red steering icon lights up but the power steering starts to work !!!!.
No speedo,no rev counter,no temp gauge,no code recognition,no oil light illuminating,battery light on all the time.
Ive been looking up Can bus topics and trying to understand how this works.
There is a possibility now that i have a problem with this system,but its getting more and more out of my depth...hi speed can bus,low speed can bus,k-lines,serial lines.. ...ARGHHHHHH.:bang:
Ive got a error reader on its way,should be here after the bank holiday,although i`m sceptical it will help,but you never know.
I think the original message of "Check Vehicle Protection System" has been misleading and i don`t think it is the cause.
I think it is just one symptom of a more complex problem.

 

[jim cooper]

I had the same problem on my 2006 1.4 active air on. Make sure to get a longer, more flexible replacement earth strap so that rocking of the engine will not stretch it. Don't get an original Fiat part as it is too short and not flexible enough.

 

[Artermis]

Unfortunately...no luck .
Managed to find a new earth under the dash behind the onboard computer,but that is also fine.
It really is strange,i don`t have any power steering,yet the red steering wheel icon goes off as it should.However when i disconnect the switch feed/can bus connector (not the main power cable) to the steering pump,the red steering icon lights up but the power steering starts to work !!!!.
No speedo,no rev counter,no temp gauge,no code recognition,no oil light illuminating,battery light on all the time.
Ive been looking up Can bus topics and trying to understand how this works.
There is a possibility now that i have a problem with this system,but its getting more and more out of my depth...hi speed can bus,low speed can bus,k-lines,serial lines.. ...ARGHHHHHH.:bang:
Ive got a error reader on its way,should be here after the bank holiday,although i`m sceptical it will help,but you never know.
I think the original message of "Check Vehicle Protection System" has been misleading and i don`t think it is the cause.
I think it is just one symptom of a more complex problem.

Where abouts are you based mate, sounds like you could really use a full MES scan. Code reader will only look at the engine ECU, where you need to be looking deeper than that, I think.

 

[Bikernut]

Im in the North West,Wigan area.
Is that MES scan where you hack into the high speed Can bus ?

 

[Artermis]

Dam, you're opposite side of the country to me! I'm in Grimsby.

Yes, MultiECUScan (MES) along with the appropriate cable or cables can interrogate most elements of the car and CANBUS network. For the 1.4 here is a list of supported ECUs/Nodes and available functions:

Bosch Motronic ME7.3H4M EOBD Injection (1.2 16V, 1.4 16V) |INFO|DTC|DTC EX|PRM|ACT|ADJ|
Bosch ABS 5.7 |INFO|DTC|DTC EX|PRM|ACT|ADJ
Bosch ABS 8 |INFO|DTC|DTC EX|PRM|ACT|ADJ|
Bosch ABS 8 VDC |INFO|DTC|DTC EX|PRM|ACT|ADJ|
Siemens Airbag MY99 |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|
TRW Electric Power Steering (1) |INFO|DTC|PRM|ADJ|
TRW Electric Power Steering (2) |INFO|DTC|PRM|ADJ|
TRW Electric Power Steering (3) |INFO|DTC|PRM|ADJ|
Service Interval Reset |INFO|ADJ|
Connect (NAV) Marelli |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|
Instrument Panel Visteon |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|ADJ|
Body Computer Marelli (192) |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|ADJ|
Body Computer Marelli (192FL) MY08 |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|ADJ|
CAN Info |INFO|
CAN Monitor / Vehicle Settings |DTC|PRM|ADJ|
CAN Setup / PROXI Alignment Procedure |INFO|ADJ|
Marelli climate control |INFO|DTC|DTC EX|PRM|ACT|ADJ|
Bosch XENON headlamp (left) |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|ADJ|
Bosch XENON headlamp (right) |INFO|DTC|PRM|
Boot/Rear Doors BITRON |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|
Boot/Rear Doors G.E. PROCOND |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|
Driver's Door BITRON |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|
Driver's Door G.E. PROCOND |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|
Driver's Seat LEAR |INFO|DTC|
Parking control Valeo |INFO|DTC|PRM|ADJ|
Passenger's Door BITRON |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|
Passenger's Door G.E. PROCOND |INFO|DTC|PRM|ACT|
Passenger's Seat LEAR |INFO|DTC|