Cheap ICE suggestions

[MrDT]

I'm looking for suggestions to upgrade the stock ICE in my punto sx.

Something cheap will do, but would like a noticable improvement over the standard apeakers and radio cassette if possible!

Hopefully, it's a simple matter of:

• fitting a ~4x45w cd-mp3 headunit
• replacing front dash speakers with some 'proper' ones, run these direct from hu
• disconnecting rear speakers, and leave them out the equation
• bunging an active 12" fli in the boot

If this would work ok, i'm guessing it would come to about £160 (~£60 hu(?) + ~£30 fronts(?) + £70 ebay sub), which is cheaper than most head units alone!

Leaving out an external amp seems good for both price and hassle. The vibe fli's seem to be a popular choice for an active sub, and i reckon i can't go wrong for seventy notes.

So, will it sound ok running front speakers just off a head unit?

Should i disconnect the rears, or can i set them to a low volume to 'fill' the car a bit better? Should i just upgrade them?

Any suggestions on head unit and front speakers?

This is all very new to me, so help is appreciated I don't need a stupidly loud system, but it'd be nice to turn it up a little now and then. Also, i'm no audiophile (obviously!), and i reckon i'll mainly be playing 192kbps mp3s, but i don't want really nasty distortion either...

I have got some future plans that would benefit from a line-in. FM transmitter might work, but an aux in seems to be the preferred choice. Needs to handle headphone output from a laptop, can't see this being any different to headphone output on an ipod.

I know i'm asking a lot, any help is appreciated

I can be a bit flexible on price, just want to get the point across that i'm not one of the £2000 ICE budget guys, i just want to be able to listen to cd's at a decentish volume for as little as can be expected!

Cheers

 

[chaos]

The problem with the Punto is that the front speakers are only 3.5" - you may get a fair bit of distortion at any sort of volume...................if you can get a set of Punto GT doorcards from the scrappy, eBay etc then I would get a set and get some coaxials in there. I believe the speakers are 165mm in GT doorcards.................

I would disconnect the rears

You can get mp3/WMA HUs from £70...................

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=4680

I think this might have an aux in..................

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=4522

Now, assuming you managed to get some Punto GT doorcards, you could get

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=4138

Don't forget you most probably need a wiring kit for your sub, which would cost you about £20.

HTH

 

[CinquePunto]

fitting a ~4x45w cd-mp3 headunit
replacing front dash speakers with some 'proper' ones, run these direct from hu
disconnecting rear speakers, and leave them out the equation
bunging an active 12" fli in the boot

That sounds like a perfect recipe... yes GT doorcards would be slightly better, however I have that same setup, 3.5" speakers in the dash and Fli Trap active 12" sub in the boot... well I have 2 in the boot but you get the picture.

I find that it works really well, but some songs sound better than others, some songs really lack some punch due to the lack of power in the midbass (where a 6.5" speaker would really perform well)

It all depends on what music you listen to most, I listen to everything and my system plays all of it reasonably well, but if you want "uber volume" or "uber bass" then to be honest you'll want something better. If you want an all round system to keep you entertained on long journeys, then you're on to a winner!

with regard to the dash speakers, you need to check the mounting depth, otherwise you won't get the grilles back on properly and it'll look untidy

hope that helps.

 

[MrDT]

Thanks for the advice guys

I'm not too sure about messing around with replacement doorcards to be honest. Everything matches nicely as it stands, and i'd probably mess something up if i were to tinker too much!

I'm guessing there's no possibility of sticking 10cm coax speakers in the dash? Like http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=4583 perhaps?

I can't seem to find any 87mm ones

I'm guessing there must be a reason people dont fit speakers to the side of their footwells right? Just trying to think of alternative locations to the doors but still up front...

It's a shame that the simplest solution seems to be the one everyone here hates, a couple of 6x9s on the parcel shelf!

also, alpine and pioneer seem to be the kings of the headunit world right? (except the japanese brands i forget that are too high end) is there any 'top of the pops' list here, showing maybe where kenwood, clarion, goodmans, jvc etc fit into the grand scheme of things?

i'm guessing this would be pants, as it's goodmans, and 4x20w? Shame, aux in and a remote for £50 sounds good to me

and you may laugh, but this looks like it has great features and a stupid price. No-name brands don't exactly fill me with confidence though, and it seems the 'optional' aux in doesnt work, so itd need an fm transmitter.

so, im after:
good(ish) make, 4x40w at least, mp3, looks decentish, aux in, and cheap. Right?

Ha! Don't ask for much do i!!

 

[steve1219]

Give PuntoKing a PM he has just got this one and seems happy with it.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2006-MUTANT-MT1105-Stereo-head-unit-4x50w-MP3-CD-Player_W0QQitemZ9705887094QQcategoryZ39763QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Steve

 

[chaos]

I can't seem to find any 87mm ones

Have a look on eBay

 

[MrDT]

Give PuntoKing a PM he has just got this one and seems happy with it.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2006-MUTANT-MT1105-Stereo-head-unit-4x50w-MP3-CD-Player_W0QQitemZ9705887094QQcategoryZ39763QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Steve

that looks like it might be just what i'm after, thanks

how would i go about connecting this to the speakers then? Is it a simple matter of running left and right fronts off the top two red-white rca's, and the fli off the bootom two? Does the fli 'bridge' the two channels for you? Sorry, i'm a bit of a numpty lol

here's a piccy:

any explainations would be good ta

and chaos, i looked on ebay cheers. in fact, it was my first port of call (as usual ), but there was nothing i could find this morning. i'm in no real rush though, still need to pass my test lol, so i guess it's just a matter of having a look every couple of days

thanks again guys, top helpful forum here, glad i found it


edit: would the aux in be off the 'iso connecter' that goes in the black socket? what is the green socket for? (hey, i told you i'm a numpty!!)

 

[chaos]

that looks like it might be just what i'm after, thanks

how would i go about connecting this to the speakers then? Is it a simple matter of running left and right fronts off the top two red-white rca's, and the fli off the bootom two? Does the fli 'bridge' the two channels for you? Sorry, i'm a bit of a numpty lol

here's a piccy:

any explainations would be good ta

and chaos, i looked on ebay cheers. in fact, it was my first port of call (as usual ), but there was nothing i could find this morning. i'm in no real rush though, still need to pass my test lol, so i guess it's just a matter of having a look every couple of days

thanks again guys, top helpful forum here, glad i found it


edit: would the aux in be off the 'iso connecter' that goes in the black socket? what is the green socket for? (hey, i told you i'm a numpty!!)

It looks like that HU has 2 sets of RCAs. You'd use one set to connect your amp/sub up. The other set would stay unused.
If you are running the speakers off the HU, you'll be using the ISO connector that's on the right hand side of the HU in theat pic.
I would say the green connector is the aerial

 

[MrDT]

It looks like that HU has 2 sets of RCAs. You'd use one set to connect your amp/sub up. The other set would stay unused.
If you are running the speakers off the HU, you'll be using the ISO connector that's on the right hand side of the HU in theat pic.
I would say the green connector is the aerial

thanks again!

 

[MrDT]

My boss just caught me looking at ICE stuff... Lucky for me he's really into his music

I explained what I intended on doing (fronts and sub), and how the general consensus on here is reas = bad.

He reckons i'd be better off with rear 100mm's to fill out the midrange though.

He even drew me a picture and a graph... don't tkae the figures too seriously, they're estimates off the top of his head. The fact is though, there's a nice overlap like this, but there'd be a 'gap' in sound in the midrange without the rears?

Anyone care to comment?

How about:
these in the front
this in the back
and... *SOMETHING* in the rear?

Can't wait to hear chaos's take on the rear speakers suggestion

 

[Willber]

I have a Mk1 55sx 5 door and I run standard 3.5"'s in the front (need changing i know!) and some Pioneer 8" speakers in a stealth shelf with a Fli Active 12 in the boot. All hooked up via a 4x50 Sony HU.

It sounds fantastic for the simplicity and price I paid for it, but the one thing it lacks is some of the midrange punch.

I would have thought there would be more punch from 8" in the rear!

You would definitley need a bigger speaker in the front, or something in back to fill the sound a little bit more, wouldnt sound too chipper with just 3.5" and a 12" sub!

 

[steve1219]

I must agree with your boss, stands by to get ripped, I am using 6x9 and coaxials to the rear to fill in the sound and after trying with and without would not be with out them.

Steve

 

[chaos]

My boss just caught me looking at ICE stuff... Lucky for me he's really into his music

I explained what I intended on doing (fronts and sub), and how the general consensus on here is reas = bad.

He reckons i'd be better off with rear 100mm's to fill out the midrange though.

He even drew me a picture and a graph... don't tkae the figures too seriously, they're estimates off the top of his head. The fact is though, there's a nice overlap like this, but there'd be a 'gap' in sound in the midrange without the rears?

Anyone care to comment?

How about:
these in the front
this in the back
and... *SOMETHING* in the rear?

Can't wait to hear chaos's take on the rear speakers suggestion

Am I to understand from the graph that you mean splitting the vocals into two and having the lower frequencies behind you and having the higher frquencies in front of you?
Also, I'm a bit miffed as to why the sine waves are drawn as they are. I reckon that some reflections are being represented on that diagram......... Why did your boss draw those sine waves like that?

 

[chaos]

but the one thing it lacks is some of the midrange punch.

I would have thought there would be more punch from 8" in the rear!

The midrange still needs to be aimed for best results. You may well have enough punch for what you want, but you aren't in the right place to hear it

 

[MrDT]

Am I to understand from the graph that you mean splitting the vocals into two and having the lower frequencies behind you and having the higher frquencies in front of you?
Also, I'm a bit miffed as to why the sine waves are drawn as they are. I reckon that some reflections are being represented on that diagram......... Why did your boss draw those sine waves like that?

i think he said there's always a little 'dip' around the mid-frequency, car audio, home audio, wherever, and i guess there would be some reflections in the car right? anyway, that doesn't really matter, we could imagine it were a straight line if we like, it's the fact that there needs to be an 'overlap' that matters.

having looked at some 3.5" speakers, some of them are quoted to go down as far as 90hz (gto326e's for example), so there would supposedly be an overlap with a sub in the boot. Thing is, these things can't really be expected to handle such low frequencies all the way up to the 20k range can they? What is a realistic frequency range for these dinky little 3.5 inchers?

I understand that a set of components in the door would be the best solution, but it's not really an option i'm willing to go for at the moment. What i could do is fit the fronts, a sub, and then test the system using the stock 10cm's in the rear and then without. The gash sound quality from them would pobably result in me just disconnecting them!

Nobody replied to why speakers don't get fitted to the kickpanel of puntos. They would be up front, but wouldn't involve cannibalising the door cards.

Finally, how could i be sure that all the low frequencies go to the sub, and the high frequencies to the fronts? I mean if these JBL's honestly handle 90hz, doesn't that mean they'll try pushing out the bassline too? That would probably end up sounding horrible, is it just a matter of playing music at a relatively low volume so the fronts don't distort, and just upping the gain on the sub's amp to make sure i get some bassy goodness?

God this is so confusing. I'm starting to LIKE my stock p.o.s. ice.... (ok, i lied!)

 

[steve1219]

If you go and have a look at this page makes understanding Ice a little easier

http://www.bcae1.com/

Steve

 

[MrDT]

If you go and have a look at this page makes understanding Ice a little easier

http://www.bcae1.com/

Steve

Thanks, i got halfway through already (saw your link in another thread), i guess if i keep reading it over and over it'll eventually sink in

edit: and it really is a great link too, very comprehensive i'd say, goes right into the nitty-gritty with scary looking equations etc

 

[steve1219]

LOL, no, it should help you make a decision on things, as you can see we all differ with our views with ICE so when you ask for advice you get flooded with help ,all good and all different, what you then need to do is sort out what you like and using the advise do it.

Steve

 

[MrDT]

I think I've decided on what I'll be getting.

Headunit: Mutant MT1105 - £70.75 inc p+p
Fronts: JBL GTO326e - 8cm speakers £34.99 PLUS p+p
Rears: JBL GTO936e - 6"x9" speakers £34.99 PLUS p+p
Subwoofer: FLI Trap 12" Active - hopefully £70 inc p+p if he lists another 'buy it now'
Wiring kit: Autoleads PC4-27 amplifier wiring kit £14.49 inc p+p

So that's £225.22 plus whatever caraudiosecurity.com charge for shipping. Not bad in my opinon

I might have a go at strengthening and stealthing my parcel shelf. If it all goes tits up, or I haven't got the time, I guess I might buy one. Shame I can't find a £15 one for a mk1 on ebay, there are plenty for mk2's!

Thanks to everyone for their help Fifty quid more than my original budget gets me a sound system that should make me more than happy!

As soon as the summer hits properly, and I get back into my diy, I'll start on the car computer for gps etc, and the sound/instructions/directions should happily play through the car speakers (not to mention the gigabytes of films, cartoons, and mp3s )

Again, thanks guys

 

[MrDT]

Nobody replied to why speakers don't get fitted to the kickpanel of puntos. They would be up front, but wouldn't involve cannibalising the door cards.

To answer my own question:
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=124287

look rather nice in my opinion, no?