Panda (Classic) Charmanda(er) - mania continued......

[blu73]

The proverbial happens...

So home early from the meet today as Char now, as of this morning, just turns off when you turn right anything more than slightly.. Bit weird but one of the old boys at the meet was talking about oil in coils or something and that it could be that. Sounds plausible and cannot think of anything else it could possibly be despite this coil not being so old so ordered new bosch coil and plonked Char back in the garage for now.. always the way with an old fiat, works perfect until you are meant to be going somewhere specific in it and then it throws a tantrum. Hey-ho, worse things happen at sea so they say.

Couple of snaps from today.

 

[blu73]

OK, so I'm sat waiting for parts to arrive still but the more i think about this cutting out problem the more weird it seems. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated..

I know its ignition related rather than fuel starvation as for one the car is full to the brim so its defo not fuel sloshing away from the pickup or anything plus the tacho, whose signal comes from the coil -ve post turns off when the cutting out happens - then once you straighten up it often does a big bang as i presume due to no spark there is excess petrol thats going down the exhaust and igniting. Car idles fine, starts fine, runs great; you can brake hard, accelerate hard (as hard as a 750 allows), turn left hard or just sit stationary and its totally fine but turn right anything other than uber gentle and it dies. This is nothing to do with actual steering angle so its not the steering rack or anything catching something as you can turn to full lock no problems if you are not moving - its just weight transfers left that there is an issue.

So I have a coil coming, also few distributor parts that i have not yet changed. But I struggle to understand what could possibly cause this, having gone and looked at the construction of a coil i can't see how it could be an issue - I will change it anyway but I do not have high hopes.

Any thoughts.....?

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Is the cam box cover leaking into the distributor or the camshaft seal itself? Definitely sounds ignition related. Are there any leads/wires that have become involved with the steering rack at all?

If you end up ruling out ignition it may be worth checking the float in the carburettor isn't sticking and causing a flood.

 

[blu73]

well my thinking is if it was fuel related the plugs would still fire and my tacho would register engine speed but when it happens the gauge just drops to zero and then springs back to life at same time as engine... so i think it has to be ignition related or that wouldn't happen..

Mmmmm cam seal is an interesting idea, I have had the dizzy cap off recently - at the time there was no sign of oil and nor is there externally any hint of a leak. When my new rotor arm and points and stuff arrive I guess would be a good time to check further in the dizzy for signs of oil - I don't think its this really but its the right direction to slosh oil that way i suppose.

another question.... whats that box on the side of the dizzy do??

 

[Dragon Man]

magic and wizardry.

 

[Dragon Man]

actually its just the ignition amplifier module that makes the "pointless" points work.
if you have one, just connect the orange wire to the ignition live, and the green wire into the - side of the ignition coil. you now never have to replace points ever again!

 

[blu73]

mine does have one yeah - looks retro fitted (held to the dizzy with cable ties rather than screws).... So this replaces the old style condenser thingy?

So does this do the same thing as this thing?? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200540069425
As I have got one of them on my car now but sounds like its utterly pointless if you have that thing....?

I don't think it being there is causing a problem as it worked fine for half a tank after fitted, so about 200 miles ish at a guess.

Postman has just handed me a shiny new Bosch coil so will get that fitted up at weekend even though i highly doubt thats the issue. Do have new points coming as well just cause they were so cheap, and a new rotor arm.

 

[Dragon Man]

yeah it kinda does the same thing..

the distributor with ignition module has no points, it uses a "magnets" to know when to trigger the coil. kinda the same thing though.

 

[blu73]

Intriguing... you know there is alot of anti fuel injection round these parts but I swear to me this carb, coil, dizzy stuff is way more hard to get my head round lol. I mean the basics of how it works is simple but the intricacies of it confuse the hell out of me sometimes. Can't argue with the noise carbs make though, they sound ace

 

[Didge3]

Very weird... The fact that it happens when you're turning makes it sound like a fuel delivery (like the float getting stuck as mentioned) but the tacho cutting out with the engine points to ignition. I can't say I've ever had the engine completely cut out on me so have no suggestions.
I doubt it's the coil unless something has somehow killed it, I just checked my inbox and I got it in December 2013 so it's just over 2 years old but maybe....
I think its probably the magical box on the side of the dizzy.

 

[blu73]

Well new coil is here now so I will fit it, if nothing else this one is prettier haha.. defo seems ignition and not fuel so will poke around all the connections and gonna check earth's too, maybe I have knocked one a bit loose or something. Will look over the weekend ?

 

[blu73]

Well I might not know exactly what's going on but one thing I do know is shiny new bits make me happy

 

[blu73]

Right OK, So now I have done some reading on this so called 'pointless ignition system' I get how that works now and there is zero point in me having that 'black top ignition' box. So plan of attack for the weekend is to fit the new coil, cause i got it and its shiny, and remove that 'black top ignition' box. And then check for any snagging wire and clean up any earthing connections I can find.

That ignition module.... I found Dragon Man diagram in another thread, this one...

I see there is an earth on that module, where does this actually earth? I assume it just earths on the dizzy housing but is there a wire (don't recall seeing one) for that or is it just the base of the module touching the dizzy body that earths it - i'm sure this earth is uber important is all so just wanna be sure on this one.

Assuming the car works after that then it can have new control arms and stabliser bushes fitted.

 

[kolza]

Do you have the Hall effect signal pick up unit inside your dizzy or cassette with mechanical points?

 

[blu73]

I've not yet looked, I have dropped Vern a message as I suspect he fitted it. But that was something i intend to look at at the weekend also. Like I said, this is clearly retro-fitted so no idea at this point whether its still got the old points in still until i open it up.

 

[Didge3]

I've not yet looked, I have dropped Vern a message as I suspect he fitted it. But that was something i intend to look at at the weekend also. Like I said, this is clearly retro-fitted so no idea at this point whether its still got the old points in still until i open it up.

Vern fitted it originally I believe, I can't believe you're not a fan of my gold sportscoil! It says sports on it! +5hp

 

[blu73]

lol... but the new one is shiny and blue, i like blue things and shiny things.. plus I'll openly admit I'm a brand whore and bosch (in general) make top quality parts.

 

[blu73]

Do you have the Hall effect signal pick up unit inside your dizzy or cassette with mechanical points?

Sorted this a few days ago . I had a spare distributor and coil from a 4x4, they're electronic ign. and are a straight swap for the type with points, as the engine will be replaced soon it occurred to me that it wasn't worth buying new contacts (£25) for the old distributor so in they went.

So taking that as its not got mechanical points reading is far easier than getting oily sometimes. Sadly it never did get a more powerful engine though haha.

 

[Didge3]

So taking that as its not got mechanical points reading is far easier than getting oily sometimes. Sadly it never did get a more powerful engine though haha.

There were about 3 different plans to upgrade the engine but it always got derailed
(Also if I hadn't been skim reading I could've told you from the beginning that it doesn't use points )

 

[blu73]

Nevermind. It's good to read through the old threads anyway. Get a handle on what was changed when (or hasn't as the case often is) - I know the timing belt and tensioner was changed in 2013 now which I didn't before