Technical Car stalling and clutch judder

[KRaikkonenNo1]

Hi, my car has recently started to stall itself when I go to pull away from stopping in 1st gear.

What happens is I have my clutch at what is usually my bite point, and then the car will not pull away, the revs can still increase but the car feels like it's not in gear even though it is, and then as I try to move the car just silently stalls without me even realising sometimes! The only way to counter this is for me to take it out of gear and put it back in gear.

Also could this have anything to do with the sever clutch judder that my car suffers from?

Thanks.

 

[fingers99]

Well, it could have. But it's hard to guess what the issue is from the description.

If you filled the location thingy in your side bar in, maybe someone would come out and take a look, etc.

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

Using the mobile app and wasn't aware of that information on the sidebar.

Basically the car seems to stall when in 1st gear - the biting point seems non-existent when this happens as if it is not in gear even though it is, then it stalls as I go to pull away like normal. I have a hunch that the clutch judder may be linked in with it.

Tbh the stalling occurs every couple of days, the clutch judder happens all the time and has done for months, if anything the clutch judder is what needs sorting.

Thanks.

 

[Ziggy122]

I'd like to blame the clutch

Is it a mk2b punto or mk2?

if its a mk2b, the 8v's were plagued with clutch judder, where fiat just banged new clutch in, it'd be fine for 9months and then judder again

A decent clutch normally cures it tbh

How many miles have you done?

And have you changed the brake fluid to the clutch? as that could forwell be ready

Zggy

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

I'd like to blame the clutch

Is it a mk2b punto or mk2?

if its a mk2b, the 8v's were plagued with clutch judder, where fiat just banged new clutch in, it'd be fine for 9months and then judder again

A decent clutch normally cures it tbh

How many miles have you done?

And have you changed the brake fluid to the clutch? as that could forwell be ready

Zggy

It's a mk2 2001, done just over 90000 miles now, and no sign of a clutch in the history.

Haven't changed brake fluid as is full, or does this not matter, can the fluid expire changed the transmission oil.

Thanks.

 

[jon1612]

stop worrying about brake/clutch fluid going out of date - one christmas day my landrover clutch pipe decided to leak fluid and as i needed to go to mothers ( as you do once a year ) drastic measures were needed and as it was in the day before 24hr opening i put fairy liquid in the clutch master cylinder and managed to have a very happy christmas and several days after till i managed to change the cracked hose. if it has fluid in then will work.
if engine is dripping oil on floor could be crank oil leaking onto clutch.
more likely ( from experience ) it could be bottom engine mount work, mine used to judder so bad the exhaust used bang on floor pan, new dog bone mount cured it

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

stop worrying about brake/clutch fluid going out of date - one christmas day my landrover clutch pipe decided to leak fluid and as i needed to go to mothers ( as you do once a year ) drastic measures were needed and as it was in the day before 24hr opening i put fairy liquid in the clutch master cylinder and managed to have a very happy christmas and several days after till i managed to change the cracked hose. if it has fluid in then will work.
if engine is dripping oil on floor could be crank oil leaking onto clutch.
more likely ( from experience ) it could be bottom engine mount work, mine used to judder so bad the exhaust used bang on floor pan, new dog bone mount cured it

I investigated the dog bone mount as being the culprit as I had seen it mentioned in a previous post regarding clutch judder; is there a way I can tell if it is this, I imagine the engine would need to be supported and the mount removed to check for damage?

Thanks.

 

[oldhammer]

You don't need to remove dog bone mount to check it.
Raise car enough so you can get under it (safely) axles stands or ramp/chock back wheels (accringtonbricks if no chock)

and grab engine by the sump and pull/rock it- if dog bone is fubard you will feel the give in the engine.

 

[jon1612]

I investigated the dog bone mount as being the culprit as I had seen it mentioned in a previous post regarding clutch judder; is there a way I can tell if it is this, I imagine the engine would need to be supported and the mount removed to check for damage?

Thanks.

mine seemed to rock a bit too much from the top, when i looked at the dog bone you could see it was split. so i bought a new one off ebay, only thing was when it arrived the hole was bigger than the bolt (ie : bolt diamether 10mm whole was 20mm, ) spent hours searching the web etc, didnt find any different, went to Fiat dealer and ordered new bolt and asked if was bushed etc, they didnt know ????
when bolt arrived was same anyway fitted it and cured problem.
you wont need to support engine as is held on top mounts, rear one is just to stop engine rocking ( hence juddering) easy to fit BUT
WORD OF WARNING - mine came out ok but
some of the bolts SNAP OFF and they screw into the subframe captive nut, or so i have read. so you might have a problem drilling it out if it does and you cant get to it from above as body is in the way. I didnt find out till after you should try soak bolt with release agent before trying

 

[oldhammer]

You can see if theres play in mount by lifting bonnet
get someone to drive car forward gently in a safe Area' own yard/empty car park .

looking at engine from side view not in front of car (incase driver does a burn out and runs you over **** happens.)

you will see engine rock that way.

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

Will take all this into consideration when testing tomorrow, hopefully the weather holds up and can get it sorted!

Thanks for the help guys, will report back with what I've found out

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

Have been doing a little testing earlier regarding this engine mount; I've shaken the engine from the bonnet and there is not too much movement, also quickly shook the sump and that appears ok.

So next I got my trusty assistant to drive the car forwards slowly while I watched the engine from the side, I found that the engine shakes and the airbox rocks drastically, so I secured the box down with cable ties to make sure, and it still rocks. I don't know if this is the engine itself shaking or the clutch shaking the engine?
Also to note, to get the shaking to happen the car had to be driven on a flat or up a hill (which makes the shaking worse).

Finally I noticed that the shaking happens even worse when reversing quickly, so I tested this again and I noticed that the back of my exhaust shakes badly and starts to knock against something?

I have attached 2 videos of the engine and exhaust shaking.

If anyone could help with this, it would be appreciated

 

[s and b]

you probably have a distorted clutch plate
for the record i dont take the dog leg off subframes anymore when doing clutches seeing as they can well seize in their captivity so now just undo them off the gearybox and pull and tie out of the way

 

[jon1612]

looks like cheap aftermarket exhaust, rear box is wrong orientation, my punto was same had 100 quid exhaust fitted and noticed original has horizontal (oval) new one verticle oval and banged on floor at every speed bump and pot hole. think is a generic back box that fits a few cars.
as for engine rocking not enough to see on video, sounded like was missfiring more than anything else

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

you probably have a distorted clutch plate
for the record i dont take the dog leg off subframes anymore when doing clutches seeing as they can well seize in their captivity so now just undo them off the gearybox and pull and tie out of the way

Clutch plate distorted, means whole new 3 part clutch? Any way to confirm it is this?

Thanks.

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

looks like cheap aftermarket exhaust, rear box is wrong orientation, my punto was same had 100 quid exhaust fitted and noticed original has horizontal (oval) new one verticle oval and banged on floor at every speed bump and pot hole. think is a generic back box that fits a few cars.
as for engine rocking not enough to see on video, sounded like was missfiring more than anything else

Before I got the car, it had had a whole new exhaust fit right down the car. Will try see if is generic part. Maybe the violent judder is causing the exhaust to shake and not the actual exhaust itself?

Agreed, It's hard to see from the video but the noise you can hear is the airbox violently hitting up and down against the engine, not sure what to test next really, any ideas?

Thanks.

 

[jon1612]

was that shaking just with the engine running (ie out of gear ?)

 

[s and b]

Clutch plate distorted, means whole new 3 part clutch? Any way to confirm it is this?

Thanks.

any local independant garage would look for free for you if you showed an interest in your car,just dont turn up when we are eating our jam butties

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

was that shaking just with the engine running (ie out of gear ?)

No, only happens when pulling away in 1st gear or reverse, perfectly fine just running.

 

[KRaikkonenNo1]

any local independant garage would look for free for you if you showed an interest in your car,just dont turn up when we are eating our jam butties

Local garage is good so might give it a go, even better might bring some jam butties with