Technical Car cut out and will not start. 500s 2014

[varesecrazy]

Im intrigued by it running briefly ..
after 'a rest'

Is it definitely 'breathing.'?

Not an airlock in the tank so pump cannot supply fuel..

But your 1 second of power sounds wrong also.. most of my FIAT fleet have run for nearer 10 seconds


Relay is a possibilty.. but why is it better when 'Cold'..??

@koalar may well know of relay details

I seem to recall @DaveMcT chased his tail for a while on a panda too


I was going to suggest a primitive test for fuelling..or the lack of..

But 95% sure you just need reliable power to that pump

 

[The Panda Nut]

Another thought. Take mthe fuel cap off and then try starting it. Has the cap breather failed? For all the world this sounds just like a blocked fuel line.

 

[koalar]

I Am confused as I haven’t been along for the ride on this thread

First of is this a petrol 1.2

If it is. Then the fuel pump should prime for a couple of seconds every time the ignition is switched on

If the pump is in good order it’s very quiet. You need the widows up, radio off and blowers off

If there is any doubt then near the injectors there is something that looks like a tyre valve cap. Remove the cap and in the centre there’s a pin. Push it down and petrol should spray out. If someone turns the ignition on petrol should flow out. This is where you should connect a pressure gauge. But just a flow is good enough for now

Stay safe. The petrol will soon evaporate. But don’t have any flames/smoke near by.

Starting and cutting out after a few seconds is a classic symptom of a faulty pump

If the pump is faulty they can normally be revived by a couple of gentle thumps on the top while someone is turning the ignition key

I will wait until we have checked for fuel pressure before moving on

 

[koalar]

@koalar may well know of relay detail

Yes there is a relay which is handy as it’s possible to pull it and check the continuity all the way to the pump

But before going into details it’s probably worth waiting until a fuel starvation situation has been confirmed

 

[bugsymike]

Last Friday at 7:50 I suggested checking for fuel pressure at the injectors after it starts and dies. As Koalar has mentioned at 10:20 last night, there is a easy way to check it. A basic petrol engine needs fuel, compression and a spark, preferably in the right order. Take away one and it will not run.

 

[koalar]

Last Friday at 7:50 I suggested checking for fuel pressure at the injectors after it starts and dies. As Koalar has mentioned at 10:20 last night, there is a easy way to check it. A basic petrol engine needs fuel, compression and a spark, preferably in the right order. Take away one and it will not run.

Sorry I didn’t see your reply

I Didn’t read all the way through the thread

Got board and confused when after a few pages there was mention of belt and chain. I am sure it must say somewhere but skim reading I couldn’t see if it was a petrol or diesel as I believe the 500s could be either

Petrol the valve is here

 

[bugsymike]

As koalar is showing in the pic, well worth checking and doesn't cost a penny

 

[John202020]

This is the 09 car fuse relay box might be 17

 

[koalar]

This is the 09 car fuse relay box might be 17

Yes it’s T17 I purposely didn’t mention it

In my opinion we need to confirm the problem is in fact fuel starvation before trying to diagnose it as a fuel pump not working.

It’s very easy to focus on one possibly and miss something obvious like the fuel gauge is faulty and there’s no petrol in the tank

Not being in front of the car make thing difficult

Little steps with feedback from the original poster

 

[bugsymike]

To diagnose a fault you need as much relevant information as possible, I used to ask my customers to tell me exactly what happened and when, to diagnose a fault. I knew they knew very little about vehicles , however they drive them all the time and could tell me what they notice that is not normal, to help point me in the right direction. As a friend of mine says "You can't put a price on knowledge!"

 

[A3jeroen]

I had a similar thing on my Stilo once after I put injector cleaner in my tank. I even changed the throttlebody which made no difference. After standing for a while or after having removed the plugs and putting them back it would start up, but not run.
My conclusion was that it was overfueling the whole time. IIRC I pulled the fuse for the fuelsystem, removed the plugs and ran the startermotor a few times to get rid of all the excessive fuel. After putting the plugs and the fuse back it ran like clockwork.

gr J

 

[Andy mc]

Thanks for all your replies.
So tonight l removed the fuel pump and Bingo it is open circuit.
So where is the best place to buy a pump and locking ring

 

[koalar]

Thanks for all your replies.
So tonight l removed the fuel pump and Bingo it is open circuit.
So where is the best place to buy a pump and locking ring

I bought the pump from a local breakers

Now the locking ring. If it’s a similar tank to the pandas it’s possible that the neck has expanded

I fixed one forty miles from home

I ended up buying the locking ring from a dealership however there was no way to tap it on

Ended up making this out of an old horseshoe I found and a pound shop hacksaw. I was down to the last blade

It’s been cleaned a bit on a grinder now

 

[Andy mc]

I bought the pump from a local breakers

Now the locking ring. If it’s a similar tank to the pandas it’s possible that the neck has expanded

I fixed one forty miles from home

I ended up buying the locking ring from a dealership however there was no way to tap it on

Ended up making this out of an old horseshoe I found and a pound shop hacksaw. I was down to the last blade

It’s been cleaned a bit on a grinder nowView attachment 410597

Thanks mate,
I broke the locking ring.
Have just order tool - £8
lock ring - £8
and going to order a new pump with a years guarantee from premium pumps eu through eBay.
Dont want to risk a second hand one.

 

[Andy mc]

So to put this post to bed.

The pump is in and working fine.
Be wary of the cheaper locking rings on eBay.

Ring would not fit. Thread pitch was fine but thread profile was to sharp.
Had to sand the peaks of the threads down to make a square thread profile like the original.
Thankfully a purchased a tool to fit it. Was a real pain.
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO THANK ALL THE FORUM MEMBERS WHO REPLIED TO MY THREAD.
WE GOT THERE IN THE END.

Thanks again.

 

[John202020]

Keep us informed have you seen the post thats gone through several pumps in weeks be interesting the comparison

 

[koalar]

So to put this post to bed.

The pump is in and working fine.
Be wary of the cheaper locking rings on eBay.

Ring would not fit. Thread pitch was fine but thread profile was to sharp.
Had to sand the peaks of the threads down to make a square thread profile like the original.
Thankfully a purchased a tool to fit it. Was a real pain.
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO THANK ALL THE FORUM MEMBERS WHO REPLIED TO MY THREAD.
WE GOT THERE IN THE END.

Thanks again.

I used an OEM lock ring

Still a pain to fit. Tap turn. Tap turn. Pop off. Start again. Pretty sure the tank neck expands/swells