Technical Bushes

[Mcp138]

Hi guys
I think my bushes all need replacing. I have never had to do this before and am unsure about how difficult it is to do. How hard is it to remove the old ones? Also what would you recomend, just a normal fiat set, or maybe powerflex and how much would a set cost?

Any photos anyone has would be great.

Cheers

P.s I have a seicento 1.1 sporting

 

[rallycinq]

Front or rear, or both?

Cheers

D

 

[randomizered]

Powerflex, front and rear will be about £90 but that should be a one off cost.

Powerflex site details how to remove the old, doesn't look too hard, never done it myself though.

I think the Powerflex will fit a Sei, they are sold as Cinq and powerflex will make no comment on it. I think someone has them on a Sei but i think I read somewhere some sei's have different traling arms, not sure again though..


Kristian

 

[woj]

For the front ones there is a nice guide:

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinq-sei-technical/25293-changing-front-suspension-arm-bushes.html

I can add some notes to it as I did my front bushes recently:

1. The author of the guide (cheers dude , it was really helpful) did somehow manage to separate the arm ball joints from the hub without taking the drive shafts out. I have really no clue how he managed that and how the splitter he used could look like - there is just no space there. I used a fork splitter (a long bar with a fork at the end, not the one with screws and stuff) and I managed the same, but destroyed the ball joint rubbers (means I had to get new arms, ball joints were gone anyway) with this splitter. To do it properly (and safely) you will need to sperate the shafts from hubs first and use proper splitter - that means you will also need to renew the hub nuts. Shaft removal is covered here (you only need to separate them on the hub side):

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinq-sei-technical/78462-howto-checking-driveshaft-wear.html

2. The real bitches in this job are (a) taking the rubber bushes out, espcially when they are new on new arms , blow torch does wonders though, see the first guide (b) if you are not putting in powerflex bushes, putting the new rubber bushes in, (c) fitting the arms back to the car (precisley lining up the holes to fit the bolts back) having an ARB does not make things simpler...

3. I am relatively unexperienced, it took me long time to finish the job. I was doing some other things on the way and going to Fiat once in a while to get some things I broke on the way. All in all my car was on axle stands for a week. Good news is that you can do it alone if you are inclined.

4. People here will tell you that powerflex are great and the only way to go. Be a little bit sceptic here: the good things about them are (a) they don't break, (b) they slide in nicely on the arm, no problems with assembly, (c) they make your car stiffer. The downside: they make your car stiffer - it vibrates more and is more prone to unbalanced wheels and such. And the price of course: the front set is about 100 euros, the rear about the same, which I think is outrageous for what they are.

5. After you replace the bushes you should do the tracking - it most surely will be off.

And about the rear bushes - I would like to know myself, cause I will attempt it soon. Does the arm have to go out of the car? Or can it be done in situ? Taking the arm out means disconnecting the brake hoses, doesn't it... Something I would really like to avoid.

Cheers,

Woj

 

[randomizered]

Yes, If you want to fully remove the arm, then the brake hose is attached to it, unless you cut off its mount, def wouldn't recommend that though.

I see no reason why you couldn't just drop the arm down to do it though, just may be a bit fiddly.

Its all on my to do list, if i do the rears soon, I'll let you know

 

[woj]

I can imagine I could use a blow torch to remove the rear bushes easily, the problem is that when the arm is attached to the car it all is bloody close to the tank... Putting in powerflexes should be no problem, I agree. /Woj

 

[rallycinq]

Yes and eh no. On the rear getting the rubber bit of the bush out is easy, its getting the steel sleeve out that causes the problem. Its easy enough to split the brake pipe with a bit of preparation and take the arm to the bench. careful use of a hacksaw assembled through the bush hole will get it out in two parts.

Cheers

D

 

[woj]

Oh, now I got really curious... So the rear bush is metal sleeve with a rubber inside it (and the bolt goes through that rubber), is that it? Or is there anohter metal tube between the rubber and the bolt? Anybody got any pics of this? And, then, the powerflex stuff, does it have the same construction? That would mean pushing it in won't be so easy... /Woj

 

[rallycinq]

The bush is a steel tube with a wall thickness of 2mm then a rubber insert with another steel tube inside that to take the bolt.

Taking the inner steel tube out and the rubber bit is easy.

Getting the outer steel bit out is the tough job and you won't get the new bush in without taking the tube out.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Cheers

D

 

[woj]

Getting the outer steel bit out is the tough job and you won't get the new bush in without taking the tube out.

Does the powerflex bush come with a new steel sleeve, or does it slide in directly into the arm?

And, bad news is better than no news Imagine I would undo all this stuff just to find out it is going to be 10 times harder than I thought at first. Now at least I know what to prepare for /Woj

 

[rallycinq]

That one i can't help you with I'm afrid, but I'm sure someone will be along in a minute with that info.

Cheers

D

 

[Liam]

The rear bushes from powerflex are just the bush and a small diameter sleeve which the bolt goes through, no outer sleeve hence easy of fitting.

Liam

 

[randomizered]

The outer steel sleeve, is it retained by a lip? if so, could you not just grind this off, and slide it out?

Kristian

 

[woj]

From what I understand, it is not the lip that causes the trouble, but the tight fit of the sleeve in the arm. Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[Liam]

Yeah the bush is originally pressed in and I bet it corrodes too!

Liam

 

[woj]

Good news is that you can do it alone if you are inclined.

Correction - not if you want to remove the drive shaft from the hub - then you will most likely need some help to hold the brake while you are undoing the hub nut. /Woj

 

[Mcp138]

Cheers guys for such a quick and helpful response. This forum and Fiat owners in general ARE THE BEST.

I will be attempting the change sometime over the christmas hols and will try and take some pictures of everything as i go.

Also does any one know what the price of some standard bushes would be, front and back? The powerflex seem a little above my budget as im a student.

Cheers everyone

 

[Liam]

Standard bushes are £13 a side I think, shop4parts sell them but they need pressed in and they don't last.

Depends how long you'll keep the car really.

Liam

 

[woj]

:yeahthat: rubber bushes will be a bitch to press in, by the looks of it I cannot see how this can be done without a hydraulic press, maybe with a vice, but I am not sure. /Woj

 

[gazzaman2k]

cheapest place for the powerflex is ebay

took me and a mate 8 hours to do one of the rear wishbones

for the other side i took the arm off/brake and it only took 2 hours.

best bet is to drill holes all around the bush and knock it out using a hammer to get the steel outer sleave out assemble a hacksaw through the hole and saw till its through.

then get a screwdriver and start to tap at the outer lip of the sleeve after a few bashes and swearwords it should fly straight out.

powerflex ones push straight back in no problem at all.

fronts aint so bad

makes the car have tons of roadnoise though