Technical Body computer & Engine ECU compatibility / code issues

[paul12345]

any chance that the body computer has been changed b4 hence wrong keys?

 

[gimmiemorefiats]

any chance that the body computer has been changed b4 hence wrong keys?

Not impossible, but i doubt it because the last owner got rid of the car when she heard that it would need a new ECU. Unless of course the breakers who she gave it to put a different BC on it. One of the bolts on the BC wasn't tightened properly - could mean that someone had taken it off to check the connections, or that they replaced it. But they would have known to change the keys as well, presumably. I'll double-check with the yard that they don't know of any parts being changed.

 

[paul12345]

Not impossible, but i doubt it because the last owner got rid of the car when she heard that it would need a new ECU. Unless of course the breakers who she gave it to put a different BC on it. One of the bolts on the BC wasn't tightened properly - could mean that someone had taken it off to check the connections, or that they replaced it. But they would have known to change the keys as well, presumably. I'll double-check with the yard that they don't know of any parts being changed.

could well have put another one in, hoping that it would fix it also would mean the key code isn't correct anymore

 

[PuntoHowTo]

LMAO, it doesn't matter how many keys/remotes you have to be coded in, it'll be the same cost as coding in one (typically an hour's labour).

Take a look round the forums and you will soon see that different dealers charge different amounts for differing levels of service, namely more keys = more money. some might charge an hours labour per key.

I really don't know where you get you prices from? Even if it were the BC that was faulty too, you wouldn't need to replace the keys and locks, not with the CODE 2 system. When you order a new BC to the vehicle's chassis number, it comes pre-coded to the vehicle- same as if you lost all the keys, all you'd need to do is order new ones, they'll come pre-cut to the locks and part-coded to the BC.

Prices come from working in the trade and dealing directly with dealers over similar issues.... this dealer in fact as i live local to gimmiemorefiats Desira are my local dealer and i used to deal with them on a regular bases over cars with lost keys and damaged BSIs since then the prices have probably dropped slightly given that the mk2 is getting on in years however dealers never drop the prices that much especially if they have to order parts in from manufactures.
Just to make a point about your need to quote anyone and everyone who posts on here, in contradiction to anything you might have to say. Non of your petty bickering, massaging your own ego, and insistence on being right about everything helps gimmiemorefiats. or anyone else for that matter the only person it serves is you. (I'm sure I'm not the only one here who finds you unnecessarily obnoxious?)

Getting back to the questions in hand, gimmiemorefiats it might be worth putting in a call to Anglia Auto Centre, in Barford. They used to be a fully franchised Fiat dealer, and I believe retain all the equipment to be able to code keys and look at the BSI. I took my HGT to them when the Dual mass flywheel died and they were extremely good at sorting the issues and far cheeper than Desira, but able to provide all the same services. They might not now be able to help because I heard they had changed hands not so long back, but it might be worth a call all the same, if only to see if they can save you some £££?

 

[gimmiemorefiats]

Getting back to the questions in hand, gimmiemorefiats it might be worth putting in a call to Anglia Auto Centre, in Barford. They used to be a fully franchised Fiat dealer, and I believe retain all the equipment to be able to code keys and look at the BSI. I took my HGT to them when the Dual mass flywheel died and they were extremely good at sorting the issues and far cheeper than Desira, but able to provide all the same services. They might not now be able to help because I heard they had changed hands not so long back, but it might be worth a call all the same, if only to see if they can save you some £££?

Thanks Andy. I'll give them a call tomorrow (although i don't have a transporter and Barford might be a bit far to tow).

 

[PuntoHowTo]

They might be able to collect? Worth asking as they offered to come get mine but we towed it in the end as we needed to drop it off when they had closed

 

[Rsemblem]

Also im pretty sure Toft Monks will be able to do this as well, once again dealing with Fiats, they sorted out my Mk2b a few years ago.

Will no auto man be able to come out to recode keys. Mark Green is also a well know name in our parts of the world, i have also dealt with him, he was very cheap.

 

[D4nny8oy]

Andy, for some reason you seem to think I am arguing for the sake of it, when in reality I'm presenting an alternative point of view. I don't expect or insist the OP takes my suggestions over yours, I merely put my opinion, and reasons for it, across using the 11 years experience I have on Fiats. I don't profess to be 100% right all the time, but all the same, I don't like seeing "facts" what I know to be false purpetuated across the Forum.

Take a look round the forums and you will soon see that different dealers charge different amounts for differing levels of service, namely more keys = more money. some might charge an hours labour per key.

I haven't seen that anywhere, any links, please? Frankly I'd be surprised as the owner would always need to bring every key they had, regardless how many were already stored, as any not present at the time of coding are permanently deleted. It takes less than 5 seconds from switching on the ignition, to the key (and remote) being simultanously stored. To charge another hour's labour for those 5 seconds would be criminal.

Just to make a point about your need to quote anyone and everyone who posts on here, in contradiction to anything you might have to say. Non of your petty bickering, massaging your own ego, and insistence on being right about everything helps gimmiemorefiats. or anyone else for that matter the only person it serves is you. (I'm sure I'm not the only one here who finds you unnecessarily obnoxious?)

I find multi-quoting handy as it prevents confusion about who is talking to whom. I have never at any point told gimmiemorefiats to only throw cash at new parts.

If you look back at the thread, the OP presented the symptoms, and we all attempted a diagnosis over the internet. Had I been presented the car in person while without an Examiner diagnostic machine I would have gone along the same path, finding in which area the keycode issue was, checking all the feeds and earths were present at the ECU before condemning it.

Usually replacing the faulty Engine ECU on any other car would have sorted the problem as the code data would have been written to the ECU when the BC/BSI recognised the key. Unfortunately, in this case at key-on, the Engine ECU is demanding the start-up code, but the BC is not giving it because the keys are not stored. Therefore, the Engine ECU is still virgin at this point in time, which explains why the ES procedure has a weird "sixth digit" as the ECU doesn't know what it's looking for.

Also, people seem to confuse the Phonic wheel learn procedure (used for sync-ing the cam and crank sensor on the 1.2/1.4) and the Proxi alignment procedure which is what calibrates the BC/BSI as to what is on the network and allocates where and when the various ECU's can 'talk'- without it, the data gets muddled as the ECU's all talk at once and the BC/BSI flashes the mileage to signify a CAN communication issue.

 

[s and b]

sorry to lob a firework in your posts D4nny8oy but i totally disagree with you
obviously myself and AndyRKett work on the shopfloor and daily have to sort problems as they arise
i certainly dont have examiner although i would like to own it im sure andy is the same
what we do have is a grasp of what is possible and how much it may cost
i assume you work in a send em a invoice type place?
where we work in an environment that although we need to make a living can bend our invoice to match the needs because we need recommendations rather than an attitude of next and if you dont like it then tough

we both said fit s/h parts
we both know why we said this
its because weve been there got the teashirt and know that if it fails we have minimum spend
its still not been confirmed this car has a good engine so spends need consolidating,trust me ive been in this business longer than the ages of most posters on here and the one thing you dont do is trust people selling motors specifically non running motors to tell the truth the whole truth so help me fiat


i didnt want to add to this thread by the way and had hoped i didnt have to

 

[D4nny8oy]

Not at all, I've often spent many hours getting a car perfect and only charged the 1 hour's diagnostic. It's what annoyed me about the Dealer attitude of working upto the time limit then kicking it out the door. I've never directed anyone down the avenue of throwing money at a problem. I don't disagree with replacing the BC and engine ECU with secondhand parts (and never told the OP not to), only thing I would insist on if taking that route, is at the very least to ensure you get the VIN and reg of the car it came from so you don't get stuck in ordering keys in the future.

Personally I'd want all the locks too, as nothing would put more seeds of doubt in the mind of a future buyer than a car with two sets of keys.

Gimmiemorefiats wanted to go down the route of a new ECU. It's their choice ultimately.

 

[paul12345]

Also, people seem to confuse the Phonic wheel learn procedure (used for sync-ing the cam and crank sensor on the 1.2/1.4) and the Proxi alignment procedure which is what calibrates the BC/BSI as to what is on the network and allocates where and when the various ECU's can 'talk'- without it, the data gets muddled as the ECU's all talk at once and the BC/BSI flashes the mileage to signify a CAN communication issue.

I'm not confusing the two, a virgin ecu does not need proxi aligning, but may need phonic wheel learning, obviously if this only applies to 1.2/1.4 then it wont be needed in this case.

 

[D4nny8oy]

You said the dash would flash because it'll need the phonic wheel learn?

It's always wise to Proxi align after fitting new ECU's in the network as they may be set-up differently to the vehicle's network.

 

[paul12345]

You said the dash would flash because it'll need the phonic wheel learn?

It's always wise to Proxi align after fitting new ECU's in the network as they may be set-up differently to the vehicle's network.

on 1.2l it may well flash on the dash and need the phonic wheel learning, I wasn't aware that the HGT didn't need the phonic wheel learning.

Maybe but I've tested a fair few 59f and none needed proxi aligning and all programmed in ok so must have comms.

 

[gimmiemorefiats]

Conclusion!

Yesterday I took the vehicle to Desira to get them to code in the keys. On the phone they said that would be fine and might get round the problem, but when i got there they said that they would need to carry out another diagnosis first.

The verdict? The new engine ECU had cured part of the problem. But the body computer was different from the one in the car when they scanned it in November, and this one was faulty (as well as being not coded with the keys). Desira were sick of it and said they wouldn't charge me anything so long as they didn't see the vehicle again.

So I set about tracking down the original body computer. No one recalls switching it over, but after a bit of detective work, it turned out that the guy who i bought it off who runs the breakers yard remembered there being something in the boot. Sure enough, he found the body computer in a box in his garage, i fitted it in the dark this evening, and hey presto! It started immediately!

Everything works apart from the airbags, the cd autochanger and an emissions valve, or something - but it doesn't look or smell smokey so (touch wood) it may pass its impending MOT. Gear change is slick, steering is light, brakes are tight, no knocking, rattling or grinding, engine is really smooth... i'm dead chuffed!

Total spend £800. I estimate it to be worth c. £1200, maybe more if i can find an engine cover and sort the airbags. And it passed between four garages before being taken to scrap! Having been abandoned by so many people, i'm going to be just a bit smug when i take it back to Desira for an MOT. But to be honest, i'm just lucky that original body computer hadn't been chucked away.

As my 1968 Land Rover has never heard of airbags, i'm assuming that they're not an MOT requirement, but i'd be grateful for some confirmation...

 

[paul12345]

So it was the BSI

You need airbags sorting due to recent changes in MOT.

Also you might want to try to remove the tranponder ring and try to start the car to make sure the ecu hasn't been immo-off'd as the ecu should have learned itself, unless the wrong keys stopped this from happening

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Yay......

MOT changed include the airbag so if the light it on or air bags absent on a car which was fitted with them, then it is a failure, I think however this is being rolled out as to when these things become a firm 'fail' have a look in the leisure lounge as there is an whole thread on the new rules. Unlikely you'll be able to sell it now with an airbag problem, might just want the fault codes clearing.

You are so fricken lucky they hadn't thrown the old bsi!!!!
Just need to keep the costs down on the other problems now

 

[gimmiemorefiats]

Yay......

MOT changed include the airbag so if the light it on or air bags absent on a car which was fitted with them, then it is a failure, I think however this is being rolled out as to when these things become a firm 'fail' have a look in the leisure lounge as there is an whole thread on the new rules. Unlikely you'll be able to sell it now with an airbag problem, might just want the fault codes clearing.

Thanks, i'll have a look at those MOT rules...

I had considered selling it when i bought it, but now i think i'm going to keep it. It's the most modern vehicle in the family, so i still get a bit excited by toys which today are considered standard. Also never owned a car with such high bhp per tonne...

Having a bluddy good couple of days actually! A grant application i made for a small charity was successful, and i've just been invited to an assessment centre for one of my dream companies to work for

 

[s and b]

of course this bsi you have fitted is old and been kicking round in a box for ages
you should have bought a new one because its old you know:devil:

 

[Rsemblem]

Well done, you got there in the end.

Should be a nice car, which you got cheap.

I only paid 1k for mine 2 years ago, but mine is not as clean as yours bodywork wise.

How you getting on with it? Feel fast?

 

[fingers99]

Good work. Many would have bailed out long ago.

What is the power to weight ratio of those, anyway? (Just measuring up, trying to see whether to avoid or go for it...........)