General Best Petrol Fuel for the Panda 1.2

[Adam1984]

Hello.

What petrol are you finding is best for the Panda 1.2.

I have tried Texaco, which was no good, then went to Tesco Momentum, much better but not a station near me.

The only new station that's opened near me is a Go Forecourt. Sells Unleaded, Unleaded Xtra or Super Unleaded.

 

[JayAre]

What petrol are you finding is best for the Panda 1.2.

interesting question - and not just the 1.2

seems petrol choice is as important as oil choice

It’s all about the additives…

 

[The Panda Nut]

We have 3 1.2s,
Daughter 2 runs a 2016 on E10 but admits it runs miles better on E5
Daughter 1 runs on E10 and will never buy E5.
My wifes runs only on E5 and I won't tolerate it on any thing else.

They should run on any petrol and there is not a lot of difference between brands in the main.
E5 definitely achieves more power, easier hill climbing and notable smoother running.

I know others may have different views.

After many years with company cars and much experimenting I do believe Shell V Power and Esso are good choices and slightly better than the supermarket fuels. I drove so hard I made an effort to see if I could offset my heavy right foot before I was told off for uneconomical driving. My trials suggest 2-3 mpg better on the big brands premium fuel.

Its the lower ethanol fuek that seems to agree with the 1.2 best even though they should run OK on E10. I dont think they do.

 

[Adam1984]

We have 3 1.2s,
Daughter 2 runs a 2016 on E10 but admits it runs miles better on E5
Daughter 1 runs on E10 and will never buy E5.
My wifes runs only on E5 and I won't tolerate it on any thing else.

They should run on any petrol and there is not a lot of difference between brands in the main.
E5 definitely achieves more power, easier hill climbing and notable smoother running.

I know others may have different views.

After many years with company cars and much experimenting I do believe Shell V Power and Esso are good choices and slightly better than the supermarket fuels. I drove so hard I made an effort to see if I could offset my heavy right foot before I was told off for uneconomical driving. My trials suggest 2-3 mpg better on the big brands premium fuel.

Its the lower ethanol fuek that seems to agree with the 1.2 best even though they should run OK on E10. I dont think they do.

So your saying stick with the E5 for better quality all around?

 

[The Panda Nut]

So your saying stick with the E5 for better quality all around?

I will only use E10 if I cannot get the E5. My twin air appears to lose 20hp on E10 and needs two gears down on hills. I know E10 may reduce fossil fuel use but if you use more, and I definitely did, its not a saving worth making. Id rather just drive slower whenever I think about the environment. Its a better way.

So yes I would stick with the E5 even though it may cost more at the pump.

 

[John03]

I've had an older 1.1 (09) and a newer 1.2 (68) and between the two cars have driven around 60k miles mostly on motorways. The newer 1.2 in particular reacts exceptionally well to the lower ethanol content and returns around 50 miles more per tank, more than enough to offset the increased cost of premium fuel. The design of the 1.2 also benefits from better fuel, as it is port injected and the extra additives will wash carbon buildup from the intake valves as the fuel is injected.
I may also plug my OBD2 reader into the car and record the fuel trim on the injectors to see if there is a definitive difference in the amounts injected or if I just drive more carefully knowing the fuel in my tank is more expensive.

 

[Adam1984]

I've had an older 1.1 (09) and a newer 1.2 (68) and between the two cars have driven around 60k miles mostly on motorways. The newer 1.2 in particular reacts exceptionally well to the lower ethanol content and returns around 50 miles more per tank, more than enough to offset the increased cost of premium fuel. The design of the 1.2 also benefits from better fuel, as it is port injected and the extra additives will wash carbon buildup from the intake valves as the fuel is injected.
I may also plug my OBD2 reader into the car and record the fuel trim on the injectors to see if there is a definitive difference in the amounts injected or if I just drive more carefully knowing the fuel in my tank is more expensive.

I agree, I have used Tesco Momentum last fill for first time, but compared to Go Fuel Xtra Unleaded, the Tesco Momentum feels so much better. Which OBD reader do you have to do that?

 

[KPat]

Be aware that 99 octane E5 petrol can cause hesitant starting in the 1.2 engine. This is because of the higher flash point to achieve anti-knock in high compression engines. The 97 octane E5 petrol should work fine though.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

There are other variables to consider here. Often people say ‘petrol Brand A works better than Brand B’… and so never use Brand B again.

But, as well as the octane and ethanol levels there’s the ‘staleness’ of the fuel to consider. Literally ’how fresh’ it is.

Many of the things in fuel that make it burn the way it does are highly volatile— they evaporate. Older fuel literally ‘goes off’. So it’s not just ‘Brand A is better’ - it can be that the garage selling Brand B has had it sitting in their tanks for longer. This is why for each brand you find folk who swear by it, and others who swear at it. I worked for many years at a govt research lab that studied vehicle emissions and the things that affect them. Staleness of fuel was a big consideration.

The people who say “I’ll never use Brand B again’ tend not to try the same brand from a different filling station. Were they to, they may find that actually ‘Brand B’ was brilliant from somewhere else. Buying fuel from a petrol station that sees a lower turnover of fuel in the tanks will tend to result in an engine running less well. But even then it depends on how big their tanks are (small ones refilled more often could be fresher) and also on how low they let the tanks run before they refill (larger void volume gives greater chance for the volatiles to evaporate). And of course, the same happens with the fuel sitting the car’s tank. If you drive a lot and use a tankful in a week, you’ll get better results from it than if the same fuel sat in the car for a month.

Less alcohol in petrol will, generally, gain a higher fuel economy - because more petrol and less alcohol burns more efficiently. The car’s electronic systems are designed to allow the engine to use fuel with varying levels of octane and ethanol, and to get ‘the best they can’ from what’s in the tank. But just like ingredients in a meal, give an engine ‘better’ fuel and it will be happier. If you are a low mileage driver, then the long-life additives and lower ethanol percentage will not ‘go off’ so quickly so it’s the better choice.

The ECU and various sensors across the car do their best to extract the most efficient burn from the available fuel. Not only are they trying to balance the variations in octane and ethanol levels and staleness, but also the effects of weather: cold dry air, hot humid air, atmospheric pressure… all these have an effect too.

So there is not a single ‘right fuel’ answer… because nothing remains constant. Whatever’s best for one person may well not be right for someone else.

 

[jrkitching]

And of course, the same happens with the fuel sitting the car’s tank. If you drive a lot and use a tankful in a week, you’ll get better results from it than if the same fuel sat in the car for a month.

Absolutely.

If you're using less than a tankful a month, then I'd definitely not use E10.

I run my Panda on E5, and I'd use E0 if I could still get it at reasonable cost; I've not made any use of the car this winter, and apart from keeping the battery charged, have done nothing else to maintain it. I took it out for the first time in about three months yesterday; it started pretty much instantly and ran just fine.

 

[Adam1984]

Absolutely.

If you're using less than a tankful a month, then I'd definitely not use E10.

I run my Panda on E5, and I'd use E0 if I could still get it at reasonable cost; I've not made any use of the car this winter, and apart from keeping the battery charged, have done nothing else to maintain it. I took it out for the first time in about three months yesterday; it started pretty much instantly and ran just fine.

I literally use my car to drive to work every day and home. Which is 10 mile all round trip . So five days, 50 miles a week.

 

[jrkitching]

So five days, 50 miles a week.

With such low mileage, I'd stick with E5. Those short journeys aren't going to get the engine hot enough to burn off the extra water that E10 is going to collect.

And change the oil & filter at least annually, regardless of mileage.

 

[Adam1984]

With such low mileage, I'd stick with E5.

But try not to use Tesco super momentum?

 

[John03]

I agree, I have used Tesco Momentum last fill for first time, but compared to Go Fuel Xtra Unleaded, the Tesco Momentum feels so much better. Which OBD reader do you have to do that?

The obd reader I have is the Carly one, it reads live data as well as fault codes. There are much better value for money options out there that should do the same.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

But try not to use Tesco super momentum?

No need. Momentum 99 has octane boosters to raise it to 99 Octane. But very few cars need that, and many aren't set up to run on it. (SuperCars may do... but not Fiat Pandas). The Panda is designed to run on fuels available to suit town cars around the world -- often lower in octane, and even higher in ethanol. The ECU is programmed to cope with these variations. Use something from outside what it expects and it may not be so happy, will bring no benefit and may actually be worse.

In terms of 'staleness', I wouldn't be surprised if the 99 grade was more stale (had 'gone off more') as I doubt they sell much of it.

(for comparison: Standard Unleaded is 95 Octane, Super is usually 97, so 99 is way more than needed in a small low-powered engine)

 

[Adam1984]

No need. Momentum 99 has octane boosters to raise it to 99 Octane. But very few cars need that, and many aren't set up to run on it. (SuperCars may do... but not Fiat Pandas). The Panda is designed to run on fuels available to suit town cars around the world -- often lower in octane, and even higher in ethanol. The ECU is programmed to cope with these variations. Use something from outside what it expects and it may not be so happy, will bring no benefit and may actually be worse.

In terms of 'staleness', I wouldn't be surprised if the 99 grade was more stale (had 'gone off more') as I doubt they sell much of it.

(for comparison: Standard Unleaded is 95 Octane, Super is usually 97, so 99 is way more than needed in a small low-powered engine)

So your saying stick with standard unleaded fuel?

 

[A3jeroen]

Reading isn't easy?

 

[jrkitching]

So your saying stick with standard unleaded fuel?

It's a common misconception that high octane fuel is just for high performance cars with high compression engines being driven hard, but that's not always true. The answer's not that simple; it depends, among other things, on how you drive the car.

Modern engine management systems can adjust the ignition timing on the fly to make the best of whatever fuel they're using. At lower rpm, retarding the ignition allows the engine to develop more power and torque (the opposite is true at high rpm); the limiting factor is the preignition point. This is when older cars would 'pink', sometimes causing serious engine damage, but a modern engine will advance the spark to stop this happening. This prevents pinking, but generally it's at the expense of power and economy. Higher octane fuel allows the engine to run more retarded at lower rpm, and this helps both power and economy at the bottom end of the rev range (provided of course that the ECU is sufficiently capable).

If you're the kind of Panda driver who likes to keep below 1800rpm in the intermediate gears, you might get more benefit from a high octane fuel than you might think. The difference is certainly noticeable in my own Panda.

What I'd suggest is that you try a few different fuels and find what works best for you.

 

[KPat]

So your saying stick with standard unleaded fuel?

If you use 99 octane fuel add a few litres of standard unleaded to prevent problems.

 

[JayAre]

So you’re saying stick with standard unleaded fuel?

higher methanol is bad news for the engine and engine oil
(amongst other things it can degrade its oil lubrication properties thus increasing wear on critical engine parts):

• Contamination
  Methanol and water contamination of lubricating oils can deteriorate their lubricating properties.
  
  
• Poor lubrication
  Methanol has poor lubrication properties, which can increase wear on engine fuel system components.
  
  
• Short-trip driving
  In severe short-trip driving conditions, methanol vehicles can have more fuel and water collect in the oil, which can degrade the oil's protective properties.
  
  
  the ECU/engine management software, no matter how ‘clever’, cannot overcome physics+chemistry​