General Bertone X1/9

[orestes]

Hey guys, just a question... what sort of extra power would you expect from a bertone x/19 with fiel injection vs a carbie 1500 in the earlier 1500's? to clarify this, i'm not talking about US spec. a stock 1500 carbie will produce 85hp but as for the injected version i'm not sure. Anyone want to help me out?

 

[Aceuno]

Not sure if you would get more power, but you would have more control with F/I through all the revs.

 

[orestes]

so the later 80's model bertone (READ: not Fiat) doesn't produce more power? one would suspect that with FI, it would have to produce at least marginaly better power figures

 

[jimbro1000]

The power output will depend entirely upon how the ECU is configured. Peak power is unlikely to be different (maybe a few more horses) since the carb version is working very, very nicely at that point, what you will have though is significantly more torque at lower revs where the carb doesn't work so well and in the real world that means the car would be noticibly quicker than a stock carb version. You may even find it revs more in which case more power maybe possible but given the limitations of the standard cam I wouldn't expect too much.

Personally I would suggest ditching the stock ECU and fitting an aftermarket mappable system. More expense but the results (according to the guys in the US using megasquirt) are definitely worth the effort.

 

[ABZSTILO]

so the later 80's model bertone (READ: not Fiat) doesn't produce more power? one would suspect that with FI, it would have to produce at least marginaly better power figures

I'd have to agree with jimbro1000, a FI will certainly be smoother and more tractable through the rev range in all gears, but I'd susect outright power may only be marginally increased. If you look at the contemporary Lancia Beta 2.0 as a comparison (yeah, I know, different engine but same switch from carb to FI) rated power went from something like 120BHP to 122 BHP - but the FI is a smoother and more economical drive. I'm not sure if there's much you can do with the stock ECU system in '80s FI, probably why a twin carb conversion was so popular?

 

[Guzzi Steve]

No,I would stick with carbies.A nice pair of side draught webers,on an Alquati inlet manifold.Carbs are easier to tune,& modify than FI.Plus the US spec X/19's,where only 65bhp as opposed to 85bhp for the euro spec ones.The US ones where strangled by a catalyst,& FI,& air con.

 

[jimbro1000]

Side draughts don't fit in the X1/9 engine bay. Unless you want to sacrifice a chunk of boot space you have to use down draughts instead.

Twin carb's is popular for power tuning but doesn't do much for smoothness, economy, etc. Talk to the xweb guys about tuning options and I think you'll get a good idea of what really works.

Only the carb'd fed spec cars were 65bhp. The FI version was 75bhp unless you are talking about the California spec - that was 65bhp even with the fuel injection system. The drop in power is pretty much all down to the emissions equipment carried but they are also lower compression and have a much softer cam profile.

The favourite trick is to use the Yugo 1300 head to push the compression back up and ditch as much of the emissions equipment as you dare.

I disagree about carbs being easier too - once you have the FI setup and an aftermarket ECU your options are much wider than if you had gone for a carb setup. It may have taken 20 years before people realised it but the carburettor is basically an anachronism - a throwback. A set of throttle bodies sound just as good and a good piece of mapping work will give you an engine that behaves far better than you can achieve on a carb setup even with constant maintenance to keep it all tuned and balanced.

 

[canadan]

Don't know where you got your information from, but all the FIAT x1/9s from 1974 to 1988 all made on the same bertone assembly line. In late 1983 fiat not allowed to sell the xi/9 in america, so became the bertone.When volvo paid more for the assembly lines the x was doomed.

so the later 80's model bertone (READ: not Fiat) doesn't produce more power? one would suspect that with FI, it would have to produce at least marginaly better power figures

 

[jimbro1000]

The final assembly was always on the Bertone production line but until 1983 most of the work was actually done by Fiat. The whole operation was uprooted and moved to Bertone in 82/83. Until 83 all X1/9s were sold as Fiats (designed by Bertone). After that they were just Bertone X1/9s sold by Fiat agents.

The changes in power are dependent on year and target market

74-78 Euro spec was 1300cc 75bhp
78-85 Euro spec was 1500cc 85bhp
74-79 Fed spec was 1300cc 65bhp
79-83 Fed spec was 1500cc 75bhp
83-84 Fed spec was FI 1500cc 75bhp

The only exceptions to this were the cal spec X1/9s which had even less power. The Fed spec cars all arrived with less power each year until an upgrade arrived. So while an '83 1500cc on carbs should have had 75bhp it most likely only had 70bhp if you were lucky! Fiat messed around with a turbo version of the FI 1500 engine (reduced to 1300cc) in late 84 but cancelled the project when they pulled out of the USA. That engine ended up in a new model instead.