Technical Anything useful I should be seeing (ODBII / Torque Pro)

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Technical Anything useful I should be seeing (ODBII / Torque Pro)

larkim

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To clear a fault on my other car I've bought a bluetooth ODBII adaptor and Torque Pro app for my phone (£10 for a 60 second job to clear a fault, much more convenient than taking to the garage when I know the fault isn't an issue!)

Anyway, plugged it into the Panda 1.1 Eco 2010 today and wondered if what, if any, of the ECU readouts you might want to keep an eye on for things which might be "out of the ordinary"? It was quite nice to have a rev counter in the Panda through the app (but not really beneficial!), but I could see a readout for "vacuum" that I didn't really understand and there are options for readouts of lots of other sensors etc.

On a poorly maintained Panda which has done 120k miles, is there likely to be any sensor reading which is worth paying attention to that I can't see from the dash?
 
The inlet air flow is measured by a MAP sensor (Mass Air Pressure). If that is out of range the engine will run badly.

If the car was neglected, you really need to get into the usual suspects.

Radiator - any coolant loss will blow the head gasket. By the time you hear any gurgling noises its too late.
Coolant pipe across front of engine - rust see above.
Rear axle corrosion. They rot but can be welded best done before something breaks. I've had mine hot metal sprayed with zinc.
Brake pipes the corrode into the flare nuts so the nuts won't turn. Fitting new brake hoses gives you chance to sort out that issue. Heat the flare nut, clean off corrosion and coat the bared pipe with antiseize grease.
Wheel bearings. The rear hubs are £30 each.
Fronts are a pain as you need a special tool.
Exhaust - Cheap on eBay and easy to fit.
Clutch - change the hydraulics before you change the clutch. The master cylinder is weak and allows air into the system
Cam belt. Most 1200 engines are safe if the belt fails (though the 69bhp is not safe). But if in doubt get it done along with water pump.
 
LOL, it's poorly maintained because I've owned it from scratch! TBH it isn't that bad and gets serviced. Just wondering really if the gadget I now have access to might give me more "early warning" info.

When you say "out of range" what would that look like? On the default screen on Torque Pro there was a "vacuum" dial which seemed to move around oddly. No idea what that was telling me!!
 
Radiator - any coolant loss will blow the head gasket. By the time you hear any gurgling noises its too late.

Actually, just picking up on that. For about the last 2 months (maybe more) when I get in and start the car I can hear sloshing / gurgling sounds from behind the dash - feels like it comes from the passenger side.

I'd written it off as just being something I'd not noticed before (as I don't notice it every day). Is this the sort of gurgling noises that should alert me to a potential HG blow? Temps never been an issue, but presuming you're suggesting it will be fine and then *kaboom*.
 
Actually, just picking up on that. For about the last 2 months (maybe more) when I get in and start the car I can hear sloshing / gurgling sounds from behind the dash - feels like it comes from the passenger side.

I'd written it off as just being something I'd not noticed before (as I don't notice it every day). Is this the sort of gurgling noises that should alert me to a potential HG blow? Temps never been an issue, but presuming you're suggesting it will be fine and then *kaboom*.


Not good. VERY not good. !!!

That sloshing is excess air in the cooling system. It usually means the head gasket is about to fail. So congrats for not have that happen (just yet). :eek:

With engine off, make sure the coolant level is at max. Top up as necessary. Open the coolant bleed screw on the heater hose. It's up between battery and back of engine compartment. Any air will bubble out. Take the car for a short drive and repeat with engine off.

Keep a close check on coolant level. If it's dropping you'll have a leak somewhere. Keep it topped up until youv'e found and fixed the leak.

The FIRE engine won't tolerate low coolant levels. Overheating will usually pop the head gasket in double quick time.
 
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Not good. VERY not good. !!!

That sloshing is excess air in the cooling system. It usually means the head gasket is about to fail. So congrats for not have that happen (just yet). :eek:

With engine off, make sure the coolant level is at max. Top up as necessary. Open the coolant bleed screw on the heater hose. It's up between battery and back of engine compartment. Any air will bubble out. Take the car for a short drive and repeat with engine off.

Keep a close check on coolant level. If it's dropping you'll have a leak somewhere. Keep it topped up until youv'e found and fixed the leak.

The FIRE engine won't tolerate low coolant levels. Overheating will usually pop the head gasket in double quick time.
Check out that steel water pipe which runs from the back of the water pump to the rubber hoses. I changed the cam belt and water pump on our 2010 1.2 Panda Dynamic Eco (64000, or thereabouts, miles) earlier this year. I was aware that there was a very slow water leak as the radiator level was requiring a small top up each week but had been unable to find a leak. It was purely by chance that I noticed there was a very small water witness mark where the metal pipe goes into the back of the pump. Further checking showed the rubber seal had hardened and was responsible for the leak. My intention had been to remove it, clean it all up and refit it with an RTV sealant. However, although the pipe looked in good condition when viewed before removal, after removal, when the pipe could be examined from all angles, it was possible to see that although 95% of the pipe was in good order with nice shiney black paint there were small areas, especially around where the heater return is joined to the radiator pipe, here there was deep rust pitting although not actually leaking yet. I decided to renew the entire pipe. Supplied by Shop4parts at a very good price with a new rubber seal already fitted. Glad to report the leak is completely cured! The seal is effected by the rubber seal being of slightly larger diameter than the hole in the back of the pump so it is compressed as you push the pipe into place. I put a wee bit of silicone grease on it to ease it into place and avoid any possibility of it tearing. Needs a very firm push to get it in!
 
Pin holes in the pipe that Jack mentions are quite common. They appear on many Fiat cars, not just the FIRE engines.

Regardless, you need to get that coolant topped up or be finding the costs of a head gasket repair.

The Panda's aluminium radiator will outlast an older copper unit but eventually suffers from too much road salt. Check it for coolant stains.

Personally I would add some Barr's leaks as a short term preventive measure. Some will shout "shock horror" but I mean the little bottle. NOT the stuff that claims to mend head gaskets. Avoid that like the plague.
 
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OK, adopting a "sense of urgency" approach, nipped out at lunch to get some coolant. As usual, difficult to see the bottle indicators, but eventually noted that the level was a little low, but not at min. Topped up to max.

Whilst parked up, located the bleed screw and this let some air out (not much). Then ran the car back to work, temps up properly and opened the bleed screw again - only a small amount of air came out.

Couldn't get coolant to come out of there - is there a temp at which I should be running it to get the thermostat opening (and how would I "know" whether the thermostat is open or not) so that I can be certain I'm forcing all the air to that top pipe?
 
You've added coolant which should push any bubbles through the system. A good way to bleed the air is to leave the radiator cap off the rad and run the engine to full temperature. Switch off and allow to rest for a few minutes then open the bleed screw any air will escape. Dont forget to replace the rad cap!

However if not much of anything escapes, it could be an issue with the bleed screw. You can test that with the engine hot and rad cap in place as normal. Cover the screw with a thick rag and open. Fluid should squirt out under pressure (hence the rag). Self evidently, if nothing comes out the screw is broken or something else is blocking the bleed hole.
 
Thanks - ran to temp and eventually got dribble of coolant through the bleed valve so feeling more content that I probably have the air bled, but will continue to listen for gurgles. Fingers crossed!
 
Well, isn't this timely.

Arrived into work this morning after patting myself on the back for addressing the coolant issues, thought I'd just check on the bleed status of the valve, and with the bonnet up could hear a nice steady pouring noise...

Yep, coolant springing like a babbling brook in the lake district out of the metal pipe coming out of the RHS of the engine (when looking down).

I wonder whether adding coolant / removing air had increased the pressure in the system and caused a small pin hole in a corroded pipe to become a much larger hole in the same pipe.

AA attending which will presumably allow for some gaffer tape bodge job?
 
You may well be getting towed home. Access to that pipe is not good.

Note to me - check the steel coolant pipe on our cars (both are over 11 years old).

PS your coolant bleed valve may be blocked. Remove the plastic screw and check there is a hole right through.
 
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Sat in the AA van as we speak :(

Your diagnosis same as the AA man - hard to access that pipe.

Let's play garage repair bill bingo shall we? Any guesstimates?
 
Radiator out.
Air con out.
Exhaust out.
Fit new pipe
Put it all back again.
Apply buggeration factor.
Present bill for HOW MUCH!!!

See if you can find a Fiat independent who knows the tricks & can save effort on the job.
 
No Aircon so that's a small reduction. I could be better off buying something off their forecourt...
 
Radiator out.
Air con out.
Exhaust out.
Fit new pipe
Put it all back again.
Apply buggeration factor.
Present bill for HOW MUCH!!!

See if you can find a Fiat independent who knows the tricks & can save effort on the job.

not done one on the Panda but isn't the same as the Punto.

undo the bolt and hose. Lever out the pipe. Remove the sealing washer if its stuck inside. Fit new part very tight.

access is tricky but double ??
 
Quoted £200 all in, which I'm not in a mood to quibble with, though I won't be getting it back until next week as the new part is causing the garage a challenge to get hold of. Ah well, just sods law.
 
Quoted £200 all in, which I'm not in a mood to quibble with, though I won't be getting it back until next week as the new part is causing the garage a challenge to get hold of. Ah well, just sods law.


Get them to call Shop4Parts for a new coolant pipe. The price for the job sounds reasonable.
 
Radiator out.
Air con out.
Exhaust out.
Fit new pipe
Put it all back again.
Apply buggeration factor.
Present bill for HOW MUCH!!!

See if you can find a Fiat independent who knows the tricks & can save effort on the job.
When I found the leak on Becky's pipe (2010 1.2 Dynamic Eco) the first thought I had was: "oh dear, I hope the little set screw that secures it to the front of the engine isn't rusted in place" when I renewed this pipe on Felicity, our old '92 Panda Parade, this little fixing snapped off in the block and, because it's difficult to access, took me the best part of a day to sort out - got away with drilling out most of the snapped off bits and running a tap into what was left of the threads. Not perfect but worked good enough to get a secure fixing. It meant removing most of the bits Dave details above though.

The second was, "oh my (or words to that effect!) That's not going to be so easy to get at as Felicity's was! (Large heat shield and manicat in the way for starters!) First things first though, will that little (10 mm spanner fits it) set screw come out? Oh thank you big G! - it just unscrewed as easy as you like! This is the only fixing that holds the pipe in place so, as long as you can get a grip on it, the pipe should now just pull out. (After you've disconnected the radiator and heater hoses of course). I was lucky in that the heat shield fixings for the exhaust heat shield came undone easily so I was able to remove this shield which I found gave enough room to carefully wiggle the pipe out without dismantling anything else. As a result it didn't actually take all that long to get the job done. It did take a very firm shove to push the new pipe into the back of the water pump though (lubed with a little silicone grease).

As I had removed the heat shield it also allowed me to notice that there were small cracks (one not so small) starting to radiate out from the fixing holes. I drilled small holes in the end of the cracks to give stress relief, in an attempt to stop them spreading and installed penny washers either side of the holes with longer set screws when reassembled.

It was all quite tight for access - that manicat really gets in the way - and you have to twist and turn the pipe around quite a bit. Manoeuvring the new pipe into position proved more difficult than removing the old one as I'd forgotten exactly what moves I'd made when removing the old one! Oh dear, old age strikes again! But the whole job didn't actually take all that long. Would have been a different story if that wee fixing had snapped though!

So, I think Dave's advice to seek out a Small (or large?) Fiat independent, would be best. Unless, of course, you are heavily into masochism and have an above average vocabulary of colourfully satisfying swear words!
 
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