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Modern eletric motors are getting small and lighter, more powerful with more torque. Switch to rear wheel drive and have two rear motors integral if possible to the wheel hub. No rear brakes other than electrically generated regenerative braking or in emergnecies "motor stall" braking forces. Normal front brakes. No drive shafts, CV joints, gearbox etc. Just the motor control unit, recharging unit, compressor.

One problem with fitting the electric motors at the wheel hubs is it increases the "unsprung weight" which has a negative affect on road holding, putting more strain on shock absorbers etc. trying to keep the wheels in contact with the road.
Hence some of the benefits of alloy wheels and inboard brakes.
 
One problem with fitting the electric motors at the wheel hubs is it increases the "unsprung weight" which has a negative affect on road holding, putting more strain on shock absorbers etc. trying to keep the wheels in contact with the road.
Hence some of the benefits of alloy wheels and inboard brakes.
Yes unsprung weight is an issue. They could be moved inwards with small drive shafts. Otherise it is a central rear motor & diff. and then you have to put the brakes back for the ABS function.

Handling. Wouldn't worry about that. Every governement is trying to take the fun and joy out of driving through taxation, speed limits, polution controls etc. so handling won't be an issue :)
 
Many EVs are using a rear motor, as it removes the drive from the steering. With a lot of weight, and fat tyres, I'm guessing they may not be too good in snow, so they'll be grateful for the rest of us continuing with the global warming, to reduce the risk of snow.
With worn rear tyres, a good dose of rain may well upset them too, although the stability control will work hard to control a slide Once sliding, they will hit hard.
 
Many EVs are using a rear motor, as it removes the drive from the steering. With a lot of weight, and fat tyres, I'm guessing they may not be too good in snow, so they'll be grateful for the rest of us continuing with the global warming, to reduce the risk of snow.
With worn rear tyres, a good dose of rain may well upset them too, although the stability control will work hard to control a slide Once sliding, they will hit hard.
Drifter's EV Dream Car

At a local supermarket car park near you - Book Now
 
Drifter's EV Dream Car

At a local supermarket car park near you - Book Now
Even those owners of lowered rust buckets we see around the supermarket car parks have more taste than to buy an EV!!!

Having watched a bit of content online from those sorts of guys who modify their cars and go to meets… it changed my perception that they were being cheap. Some of them spend insane money on their ‘upgrades’ and parts… so much that, if they wanted they could probably buy a new car / most any reasonable used car 😳😱 each to their own, not my scene!
 
Drifter's EV Dream Car

At a local supermarket car park near you - Book Now

Nah, all the rear drive EVs tend to have undefeatable traction and ESP systems.

*Bong* Fun detected, limp mode engaged.

Not that there's anything wrong with safe and worthy cars but...it's very much not what any them so far have been about until you get over 100 grand.
 
Still impressive they can get the DC down as low as that on something so big... yes the frontal area on that massive SUV is going to be about 2 - 3 hectares
That'll be the next big con, drag-gate where we find out they've all lied to get sales.
 
Found out today that Tesla charge you if you don’t go out and unplug your car from its chargers as soon as it’s fully charged… ‘idle fees’. Ugh
 
Now...this isn't vaguely Fiat related.

But the cheap electric cars..they are coming. C3 was the First..and will be here first, then comes the new Panda also sounds like Vauxhall will have a cheap electric car. Moving away from the current German and Tesla thinking of "needs more range so fit a massive battery, oops it's 55 grand now"

This would appear to slot in below but may actually be city car sized rather than large supermini.


Personally I'm an absolute mercenary when it comes to car brands, if it does the job and the price is right and it doesn't look crap then that'll do..but I suspect from the distance between the back door and boot lid the boot will be sub 200 litres.

Small cars you mainly use for short trips make far more sense environmentally as BEVs than trying to force a BEV to rival a diesel at least with current battery tech.
It may be a small Fiat, but a Panda it will not be!
 
Found out today that Tesla charge you if you don’t go out and unplug your car from its chargers as soon as it’s fully charged… ‘idle fees’. Ugh
Tbh, I can see that as ok as I know a few people with electric cars complaining people leave their cars charging in bays as free parking too, and hog the bay for much longer than they should. Which is quite selfish when chargers were limited.

PHEV owners are another bugbear of EV owners, they can only slow charge, meaning hours to charge compared to half an hour that most electric cars need now. It winds owners up even more knowing that the PHEV cars can simply drive off and charge on petrol. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Tbh, I can see that as ok as I know a few people with electric cars complaining people leave their cars charging in bays as free parking too, and hog the bay for much longer than they should. Which is quite selfish when chargers were limited.

PHEV owners are another bugbear of EV owners, they can only slow charge, meaning hours to charge compared to half an hour that most electric cars need now. It winds owners up even more knowing that the PHEV cars can simply drive off and charge on petrol. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Plug in hybrids are stupid imo. Worst part of an EV, plugging in. Worst part of ICE, fuel burning / engine parts. At a premium (suppose that counts as a bad aspect of EVs too)
 
Plug in hybrids are stupid imo. Worst part of an EV, plugging in. Worst part of ICE, fuel burning / engine parts. At a premium (suppose that counts as a bad aspect of EVs too)
Hybrids can be a benefit. But it will depend on the journeys taken, and the size and usefuleness of the battery.
In a pure ICE car, whenever we slow down, the energy used to get us there has been lost. We cannot coast for long distances, so we have to lose momentum, and therefore energy, by using the brakes, which converts the energy into heat, to be lost. Using an electric motor to recover some of that energy, as regenerative braking, storing that energy in a battery, is a gain. Then the electric power is used to help push later.
In this respect, the 'mild hybrid' seems a good idea. A small battery, with a small, but useful boost. This allows a smaller, more efficient engine once desired speeds are reached. Downside, is that we then need to carry a battery around with us, and we cannot run on electric alone. There is usually no additional electric motor, as it will use the alternator for both drive and regeneration purposes. Some use an electric motor built into the engine flywheel, with a little additional weight, but the normal alternator can be deleted.
A big advantage (to me the only real benefit), of an EV, is the zero emissions at the tailpipe. This makes town use much better for those around us.
A hybrid is the next step up from the mild hybrid. A bigger battery, still only charged by regenerative braking, but allowing a reasonable distance on electric only. Useful for short distances in town, so most useful for commutes from outside town. If more driving is done out of town, longer distances, the hybrid can lose out as it wastes energy carrying around the battery and motor. (A relative had a Prius for a few years, and was pleased to average 45mpg. My Fabia averages over 50mpg, without having to carry a battery and electric motor, but does try to suffocate people around town.)
A plug-in hybrid has a larger battery, which can be charged separately. Range on electric is greater than the hybrid. Useful for longer journeys around town, and still able to travel long distances without long stops to charge, as generally these are intended to plug in at home.
As long as batteries are heavy, EVs will spend so much energy just carrying themselves, so for me make no sense. Long charge times, and reduced range over an ICE, don't win me over. And few have proper legroom in the back, making them huge 2+2s.

Currently the manufacture of batteries creates a huge carbon footprint, that will take years before the EV 'breaks even' with an ICE. The argument for EVs to reduce carbon output is nonsense. They will have few years beyond the break even before the battery capacity has reduced enough to make it unusable. At that time the car is scrap. My Panda is nearly 18 years old. Any current EV getting to that age will have so little battery range it will be of little use. And as EV batteries die, we can look forward to a significant pollution problem there, as we currently have no viable recycling process.

Have you noticed how so many car ads now push hybrids.
 
Hybrids can be a benefit. But it will depend on the journeys taken, and the size and usefuleness of the battery.
In a pure ICE car, whenever we slow down, the energy used to get us there has been lost. We cannot coast for long distances, so we have to lose momentum, and therefore energy, by using the brakes, which converts the energy into heat, to be lost. Using an electric motor to recover some of that energy, as regenerative braking, storing that energy in a battery, is a gain. Then the electric power is used to help push later.
In this respect, the 'mild hybrid' seems a good idea. A small battery, with a small, but useful boost. This allows a smaller, more efficient engine once desired speeds are reached. Downside, is that we then need to carry a battery around with us, and we cannot run on electric alone. There is usually no additional electric motor, as it will use the alternator for both drive and regeneration purposes. Some use an electric motor built into the engine flywheel, with a little additional weight, but the normal alternator can be deleted.
A big advantage (to me the only real benefit), of an EV, is the zero emissions at the tailpipe. This makes town use much better for those around us.
A hybrid is the next step up from the mild hybrid. A bigger battery, still only charged by regenerative braking, but allowing a reasonable distance on electric only. Useful for short distances in town, so most useful for commutes from outside town. If more driving is done out of town, longer distances, the hybrid can lose out as it wastes energy carrying around the battery and motor. (A relative had a Prius for a few years, and was pleased to average 45mpg. My Fabia averages over 50mpg, without having to carry a battery and electric motor, but does try to suffocate people around town.)
A plug-in hybrid has a larger battery, which can be charged separately. Range on electric is greater than the hybrid. Useful for longer journeys around town, and still able to travel long distances without long stops to charge, as generally these are intended to plug in at home.
As long as batteries are heavy, EVs will spend so much energy just carrying themselves, so for me make no sense. Long charge times, and reduced range over an ICE, don't win me over. And few have proper legroom in the back, making them huge 2+2s.

Currently the manufacture of batteries creates a huge carbon footprint, that will take years before the EV 'breaks even' with an ICE. The argument for EVs to reduce carbon output is nonsense. They will have few years beyond the break even before the battery capacity has reduced enough to make it unusable. At that time the car is scrap. My Panda is nearly 18 years old. Any current EV getting to that age will have so little battery range it will be of little use. And as EV batteries die, we can look forward to a significant pollution problem there, as we currently have no viable recycling process.

Have you noticed how so many car ads now push hybrids.
True, a lot of variation within the term 'Hybrid'. Not a fan of the Mild Hybrid system, seems like a definite box check exercise like in the current 500 / Panda :-/ Complexity, with little benefit. I like the Toyota system (the full hybrid system non plugin, non mild). I know there are cases as you say where it's not optimal, where a diesel would be better. Though I reckon something the size of a Prius / Corolla, with Hybrid might be the 'one size best fit' for most (not all) people. Taxi drivers seem to like them and they can rack up 300,000 miles too from what I read.

I see Hybrid being pushed a lot, but as your post shows, they aren't all created equal - or for the same end consumer.

I do think Hybrids would be the most reasonable solution we have today to the problem, anybody with a working brain knows that eliminating oil entirely (even emissions entirely) isn't possible. So if we only focussed on using less and less of it, we'd probably be in a good place in 50-100 years.

Toyota still seems to be pushing the limits on the latest Hybrids. Something like 85-90mpg AND 180+ hp from a 2.0 petrol engine. If we had to pick 'one engine size / output' for everybody, I don't know what a fair measurement would be (Personally I found my 60hp 1.2 Panda fast enough and it gave you a lot of thinking time before you got up to any dangerous speed!). Most people probably wouldn't want to drive cars as slow - fair. But I reckon 2.0 / 180hp is more than enough for everybody if not less!

I think if only we had the focus on pushing Hybrid tech, there's plenty to suggest we can push it a lot farther! I think Hyundai is the second leader in actual, real world Hybrid tech. I despite that company and its quality / customer care. But technology wise they're taking it seriously and also making a contribution to real world efficiency. Imagine if all the manufacturers would put their best R&D behind it.

Re-watched Back To The Future 2 last week... found it funny that when he came back from 2015, he had the DeLorean modded to work on old junk... if only we really had that technology by 2015!!!

I caught on to a thread on a car forum once about some early Mercedes models (big, luxury models) that were 'Mild Hybrids' before I suppose most of knew what a Mild Hybrid was (unlike today where most manufacturers had them in the transition to todays EV focus). Apparently, some of those, don't work at all - even in an 'ICE' mode - when there is a fault or malfunction with the Mild Hybrid kit........ some people being left very out of pocket because of rare, limited production, dealer only one-off parts that cost a pretty penny to fix them. None of the rich folks who bought these new have any interest in fixing these now old, clunky cars (compared to the latest models they can still afford to be seen around town in). And I can't imagine they are as repairable by fixer-uppers either. I'd hate to see the last years of the current 500 / Panda end up like this someday.
 
My early car years were the early seventies. 70hp was considered brisk, 80-100 quick, and anything over 100hp was exotic. An MGB with an 1800cc engine was rated at about 90hp.
Cars were lighter then. Achieving 30mpg was a target many aspired to.
I had a Marina 1.8 (80hp), weighing under a ton, that gave around 27mpg.
Now I have a Panda, 60hp, weighing about the same, and giving 50mpg, and a Fabia, weighing about 1.3tonne, giving 52mpg. Imagine throwing away all the crash protection, the electric locks and windows, the aircon, and installing a modern engine in a seventies or eighties car. Performance would be very good, and economy outstanding. On the other hand, I'll keep the aircon, although I'm happy to lock the doors separately, and wind my own windows.

Heated mirrors are nice too.
 
My early car years were the early seventies. 70hp was considered brisk, 80-100 quick, and anything over 100hp was exotic. An MGB with an 1800cc engine was rated at about 90hp.
Cars were lighter then. Achieving 30mpg was a target many aspired to.
I had a Marina 1.8 (80hp), weighing under a ton, that gave around 27mpg.
Now I have a Panda, 60hp, weighing about the same, and giving 50mpg, and a Fabia, weighing about 1.3tonne, giving 52mpg. Imagine throwing away all the crash protection, the electric locks and windows, the aircon, and installing a modern engine in a seventies or eighties car. Performance would be very good, and economy outstanding. On the other hand, I'll keep the aircon, although I'm happy to lock the doors separately, and wind my own windows.

Heated mirrors are nice too.
A car from the 70s polluted the environment more when off, sitting in a car park, from escaping fuel vapour from its fuel tank, than a modern car running! Crazy progress. In case nobody believes me, source: Lance A. Ealey and Glenn A. Mercer, 'Tomorrow's cars, today's engines' (2002).

And yet, we have people gluing themselves to the road, proclaiming otherwise... But in their case, all those running engines idling for no reason, is most certainly causing more (unnecessary) pollution.
 
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