General Advice on buying a 2013 Fiat 500

[irc]

I would give a "well done" regardless of gender nowadays.
Back when I was riding a moped (Yamaha FS1E, among others, back in the late 70s) in this case, pretty much all of my peers could at least do basic maintenance tasks, such as changing chain & sprockets, cleaning out a carburettor, etc.
I actually remember changing a barrel and piston outside a local motorbike shop using the tools that came with the bike, plus a borrowed hammer (to remove the exhaust collar).
When my son was riding a moped (2015-ish) many of his friends had small 2-stroke mopeds, and their toolkit consisted of a membership card for a recovery service.
None of them even tried to do basic maintenance tasks, let alone servicing or repairs*.
Times have changed. Anyone who is willing to at least try the basics seems to be the exception now.


*apart from adding stickers and badly-made aftermarket bolt-on "go-faster" things like tail tidies or anodised valve covers which corroded to valve stems to make checking tyre pressures impossible.

 

[Baglady1990]

It really is straight forward and common on many cars now.
Belts, tensioners, suspension, brakes, etc are all wear and tear items.

I'll wait until you do the piston rings, valve guides or big end shells before I give you a well done, otherwise you are just looking after your car as should expected.

Yes most of them are if not all serviceable items! But in reality changing them on a 500 is another story!
The aux belt should be an easy swap but having to remove a lot of bits makes it harder and as for the tensioner… without undoing the engine mount and jacking up the engine it’s impossible to gain access!
That is not a job 99.9% of people would tackle!
Same goes for taking the gear selector unit off the gearbox to replace a seal I’m sure your aware of the ins & outs of that job!
The gearbox passenger side seal also … removing the drive shaft is a very involved process that I doubt many people would tackle!

Anyway I’m not here for complementary tittle tattle I’m here for advice and confirmation!
But generalising that most of the stuff I have done as just “part of looking after a car” is a bit of a stretch and misleading to fellow readers

 

[jimboy]

It really is straight forward and common on many cars now.
Belts, tensioners, suspension, brakes, etc are all wear and tear items.

I'll wait until you do the piston rings, valve guides or big end shells before I give you a well done, otherwise you are just looking after your car as should expected.

You’re quite entitled to your own opinion. Cynical as it may be. You come across as pique. Not really a quality you come across on here when just making observations such as we are discussing at the moment. Taking umbrage like this tends to have a story behind it.

 

[vexorg]

None of them even tried to do basic maintenance tasks, let alone servicing or repairs*.
Times have changed. Anyone who is willing to at least try the basics seems to be the exception now.

That shouldn't mean we celebrate mediocrity

 

[jrkitching]

But generalising that most of the stuff I have done as just “part of looking after a car” is a bit of a stretch and misleading to fellow readers

I'd agree with that.

These days, "looking after a car" means checking things like fluid levels and tyre pressures, and ensuring it's properly serviced at the recommended intervals. And tbh, there are plenty of folks who can't even manage to do that much.

Changing plugs, shock absorbers & brake friction materials are certainly all things to be expected as part of car ownership, but the majority of car owners today wouldn't even consider doing any of these things for themselves.

 

[RichardH13]

They're Italian, and as any Alfa (or ex-Alfa) owner would tell you, bits prematurely wearing out, the occasional screaming spanner hissy fit and general reliability niggles are the price you pay for a nice looking and (usually) sounding Italian car.

You could buy an ugly VW Up instead or an Aygo which looks a bit like a hamster, or a Mini which is really a BMW and has nothing in common with the original, but where's the fun in that?

I disagree with the first point.

We've had 2 Alfas, 2 FIATS and 4 Abarths and none have had bits wearing unreasonably quickly or any hissy fit.

More reliable that all that German ****e

 

[jimboy]

Indeed. I remember a discussion on here a few years ago, about this. Not all but I see a trend of said young driver flogging his pride and joy to the limit, braking hard and generally pushing his car further than is really necessary. Something goes wrong or something doesn’t sound right, then it’s on to the forum looking for answers. Little information to go on, it’s guess work what’s amiss with the vehicle. Lack of servicing and not keeping an eye on things as said.

 

[Baglady1990]

That shouldn't mean we celebrate mediocrity

Mediocre!???!!! ? ok you have issues … I’ll leave it there!

 

[mj2k]

I disagree with the first point.

We've had 2 Alfas, 2 FIATS and 4 Abarths and none have had bits wearing unreasonably quickly or any hissy fit.

More reliable that all that German ****e

I've had no Fiats (yet) but 3 Alfas, with a decade between each because it takes me a decade for the desire to overcome the horror of my last ownership

I won't go into the gory details, but let's just say I used to make sure I had a pocket full of change for the bus if I drove the cf3 916 GTV V6. Gorgeous car apart from the slight, er, reliability issue, much preferred it to the 156 GTA which replaced it a decade later; every single darned bolt was steel into alloy so everything under the bonnet had seized solid. You don't expect to have to change the 'stat with an angle grinder... Earlier 116 Giulietta just died from terminal rust of course, lovely car but it gets a bit unnerving when you can see the road between your feet...

Loved every one dearly of course, despite each of them coming this >-< close to a meeting with a lump hammer and an angle grinder. But when they're gone, you just go "no, no, no, never again..." Until you hear that exhaust note.

 

[jimboy]

Mediocre!???!!! ? ok you have issues … I’ll leave it there!

Aye you’re correct BL. By all accounts he has history.

 

[mj2k]

More reliable that all that German ****e

90s AMGs are fun, but they're every bit as rusty as a 70s Alfa/Lancia. I wouldn't know for the rest - they're mostly ugly and they've got no soul so these German thingies hold no interest for me whatsoever

BTW in case anyone's wondering why I drove Subarus for a few years, it's because they're basically a reliable, super-powerful Sud with less rust issues and 4wd. And though it's only been 5 years since I owned this gorgeous but hateful beast, I do think the Abarth with a Monza sounds remarkably like an Alfa

 

[vexorg]

Mediocre!???!!! ? ok you have issues … I’ll leave it there!

You have no idea....., but when it comes to cars, ah never mind, you changed a belt, or removed a driveshaft that needs two nuts removed, outstanding!, great job!!, you are so awesome, and you are female, wow, that is so unbelievable!!!

(better?)

 

[jrkitching]

better?

No, it isn't.

This comes very close to breaching forum rules on being respectful to other forum members; please show a little more courtesy and consideration.

 

[jimboy]

The guy has only been on here for a short time and is already making waves and showing signs of misogyny. Being a cynic is one thing but being beyond rude on here ain’t the way to go. This is possibly one of the last friendly car forums left. As I mentioned before,this individual has a history.

 

[Baglady1990]

The guy has only been on here for a short time and is already making waves and showing signs of misogyny. Being a cynic is one thing but being beyond rude on here ain’t the way to go. This is possibly one of the last friendly car forums left. As I mentioned before,this individual has a history.

Yeah well … this is what I was initially talking about when I joined the forum.. a woman having to tackle this kind of crap whenever I visited a garage!!
It’s the main reason why I started tackling issues on my car in the first place
I guess I should say thank you for making my point as clear as Crystal!

Anyway no skin off my nose! My skin is as tough as a rhino!

 

[chris3234]

90s AMGs are fun, but they're every bit as rusty as a 70s Alfa/Lancia. I wouldn't know for the rest - they're mostly ugly and they've got no soul so these German thingies hold no interest for me whatsoever

BTW in case anyone's wondering why I drove Subarus for a few years, it's because they're basically a reliable, super-powerful Sud with less rust issues and 4wd. And though it's only been 5 years since I owned this gorgeous but hateful beast, I do think the Abarth with a Monza sounds remarkably like an Alfa

Subaru's have some of the worst engines for reliability especially there's boxer engines and diesel's Allmost on par with land rover ?

 

[JTD_Liam]

Thankfully these sorts of eye-widening 'did they just say that' comments are very rare on this forum. In day-to-day life less so, but on here it's unusually well-mannered, especially compared to some other car forums I've visited. Long may that continue

In terms of 500 'issues' it seems a bit hit & miss from reading this thread, but that has come as a slight shock as I know at least 8 people who own or have owned a 500, some from brand new & others second hand and only one of those has had anything major go wrong. That was linked to the diesel particulate filter on the 2008 1.3 Multijet Lounge that she owned, but it obviously didn't put her off as it was repaired, run for a few more years and replaced with a newer 500, albeit a 1.2 Lounge this time.

My Parents had a 2012 TwinAir Lounge from new which had a new suspension arm & windscreen washer pump under warranty, but nothing else in over 3 years/30,000 miles. Two of Mums friends have a 2014 1.2 Lounge and a 2009 1.2 Lounge (bought 2nd hand) and neither of them have had more than wear & tear items over 3 & 7 years ownership respectively - they both do decent mileages too - the 2009 one is approaching 90,000 miles and they're not car lovers so it's not particularly pampered.

I've two other friends who've owned 500s from new without anything more than one leaky boot lid, my Cousin has a 2016 1.2 Lounge which hasn't given a wink of trouble in the 18 months of ownership so far and an old neighbour has had two 500s from new - the first one (a 2016 1.2 PopStar) only got replaced as it was crashed into.

It's true that some components can wear out prematurely - suspension bits, door handles and the boot wiring (though the above multiple examples have only had the suspension bits to my knowledge), but on the whole I'd not be concerned about owning a 500, or any current Fiat for that matter. The main issue with the 500 is the price - bought new on PCP finance it's reasonable value, but second hand it commands a premium and it's not really worth that premium (as others have said). It's not bad quality, but it's priced high for superficial reasons, not because it's better quality than any other small car. So long as you realise that when buying one, you shouldn't be too disappointed

Just don't buy one with a Dualogic (auto) gearbox and avoid ones with climate control, as both are pretty shocking and cost a fortune if they go wrong

 

[mj2k]

Subaru's have some of the worst engines for reliability especially there's boxer engines and diesel's Allmost on par with land rover &#55358;&#56611;

2.0 quad cam EJ20 is just fine, and can be pushed up to 500bhp with reworking of the bottom end, but because they're quite highly tuned you generally need to rebuild them soon after 130k. Pre-2004 normally aspirated 2.5s in the UK blow head gaskets and the US market 2.5s (which are manufactured in America) have a fearsome reputation for failure, and the less said about the diesel the better (let's, er, consider them as a good fix to the diesel emissions issue since they're self-scrapping) but the 3.0 H6 can happily run to 200k without anything other than routine maintenance.

So as long as you're not daft with putting too much boost through them, don't stick 95 RON in a car designed for 99 (that's a stupid mistake which soon wrecks the engine of Japanese imports) and steer clear of the diesel / older UK spec 2.5s, they're pretty darned good...

Super easy to work on too, I did a complete DIY reshell in 2 weeks of evening / weekend work

Whereas the 156 GTA is the only car which has ever defeated me, between the poor quality bolts and weird bits of design (you can't change the alternator without removing the engine and they mounted the cf3 ecu directly over the cat so it cooks itself!) I had to eventually admit defeat and leave maintenance to a specialist. I sold it soon afterwards...

 

[Baglady1990]

Thankfully these sorts of eye-widening 'did they just say that' comments are very rare on this forum. In day-to-day life less so, but on here it's unusually well-mannered, especially compared to some other car forums I've visited. Long may that continue

In terms of 500 'issues' it seems a bit hit & miss from reading this thread, but that has come as a slight shock as I know at least 8 people who own or have owned a 500, some from brand new & others second hand and only one of those has had anything major go wrong. That was linked to the diesel particulate filter on the 2008 1.3 Multijet Lounge that she owned, but it obviously didn't put her off as it was repaired, run for a few more years and replaced with a newer 500, albeit a 1.2 Lounge this time.

My Parents had a 2012 TwinAir Lounge from new which had a new suspension arm & windscreen washer pump under warranty, but nothing else in over 3 years/30,000 miles. Two of Mums friends have a 2014 1.2 Lounge and a 2009 1.2 Lounge (bought 2nd hand) and neither of them have had more than wear & tear items over 3 & 7 years ownership respectively - they both do decent mileages too - the 2009 one is approaching 90,000 miles and they're not car lovers so it's not particularly pampered.

I've two other friends who've owned 500s from new without anything more than one leaky boot lid, my Cousin has a 2016 1.2 Lounge which hasn't given a wink of trouble in the 18 months of ownership so far and an old neighbour has had two 500s from new - the first one (a 2016 1.2 PopStar) only got replaced as it was crashed into.

It's true that some components can wear out prematurely - suspension bits, door handles and the boot wiring (though the above multiple examples have only had the suspension bits to my knowledge), but on the whole I'd not be concerned about owning a 500, or any current Fiat for that matter. The main issue with the 500 is the price - bought new on PCP finance it's reasonable value, but second hand it commands a premium and it's not really worth that premium (as others have said). It's not bad quality, but it's priced high for superficial reasons, not because it's better quality than any other small car. So long as you realise that when buying one, you shouldn't be too disappointed

Just don't buy one with a Dualogic (auto) gearbox and avoid ones with climate control, as both are pretty shocking and cost a fortune if they go wrong

Yeah I guess it’s down to who owned the car last and how they looked after it or not!
I’m wondering how many issues I actually would have had if I had owned my car from factory…..
At a guess I’d say a few but only the obligatory weak points!?
But buying a second third or fourth hand car can be a gamble … ok so you have your service history (hopefully) but then you don’t know how the car was treated
And what problems are or could be on the horizon…

I guess in my case it was sheer bad luck & lack (complete) of knowledge on anything car related ? that I got a beautiful ish looking car that was ready for some serious work!!
I don’t know everything but I guess I assumed that buying an 8 year old at 36k wouldn’t have many issues….
I was o so WRONG ?

 

[mj2k]

Yeah I guess it’s down to who owned the car last and how they looked after it or not!
I’m wondering how many issues I actually would have had if I had owned my car from factory…..
At a guess I’d say a few but only the obligatory weak points!?
But buying a second third or fourth hand car can be a gamble … ok so you have your service history (hopefully) but then you don’t know how the car was treated
And what problems are or could be on the horizon…

I guess in my case it was sheer bad luck & lack (complete) of knowledge on anything car related ? that I got a beautiful ish looking car that was ready for some serious work!!
I don’t know everything but I guess I assumed that buying an 8 year old at 36k wouldn’t have many issues….
I was o so WRONG ?

Totally with you on that, with a few exceptions (like my front wheel drive Alfa V6 experiences, or Subaru diesels) the condition of the car is very much dependent on how it's been treated before. But sadly there's no real way of telling, other than obvious signs like fluffy dice hanging from the mirror and different coloured body panels, exactly how a car has been treated previously.

A perfectly maintained ultra-high miler (e.g. an ex Police high speed pursuit vehicle) would be an excellent car, whereas an immaculate, low mileage car may well have just been used for pottering down to the shops and back without ever warming up, thus clogging the engine with gunk, and may have been sitting in the elements unprotected for years so may soon be ready for the scrapyard.

So it's always a gamble to some extent with a 2nd hand car, but as long as you buy with your heart as well as your head and get some enjoyment from fixing the things which may need fixing, you can't go far wrong