General A few more questions sorry..

[percymon]

Ok so having driven a 1.2 Pop yesterday my conclusions were that its more punchy and refined in both engine noise and ride than the GFs 54 plate 1.2 Panda (both on 14" steelies)

Q1 I'm worried that i keep reading threads about people changing down to 4th on hills to maintain motorway speeds and that their is bugger all acceleration to safely overtake other traffic on A roads (the Panda isn't exactly electrifying in these departments !).

So i'm considering speccing a 1.4 now.

Q2 However i now read threads saying the ride quality in the 1.4 is much worse than the 1.2 - given i'd like to spec 16" wheels i'm worried that its going to be very choppy and bouncy. Dealer told me yesterday lounge and sport suspensions were the same (in relation to discussion about 1.2s) - is this the same on the 1.4 or does the sport suddenly gain stiffer suspension with the bigger engine ?


And lastly

Q3 those that downsized to a 1.2 from a bigger engined car - do you miss the performance and wish you'd bought the bigger engine ? (economy aside !)


Thanks in advance, apologies for all the Qs

I'd call the dealer but he's busy booking cars into the scrappage computer !!

 

[RobW]

1.4 is acceptable on 16"s, better than it is on 15"s

go for the 1.4 the engine is awesome, make sure you can accept the turning circle though

a long test drive is required on a route of your choice

 

[booklady]

we have a 1.2 and I can do 85 - 90 on the motorway quite happily. The engine was quite tight when new and wasn't keen on the motorway for the first 1,500 miles, but now we've done about 3.5k it's happy as larry!

However, i don't regularly drive on the motorway, (although when I do it's normally a long trip), but if this the issue that really bothers you, either get the dealer to let you take it on the motorway or go for the 1.4.

 

[Murano16v]

I swapped my 1.2 04 Panda for a 1.2 500 just over a week ago and so far quite impressed with the performance. Yes it feels tight, but also feels like there will be a lot more to come and as you say is much more refined. clearly nowhere as quick as my 100HP, but being self employed I wanted my everyday car to have really low running costs.

 

[nottsfiat07]

I find that the 1.2 is fine on hills now that it has loosened up a bit... when it was new it did lose momentum a bit and you had to change down, but there are a couple of hills near me that i can now comfortably climb in 5th gear that before I would have had to change down for. Also when I went down to the new forest I found that I could cruise comfortably at 70-80 and pass other drivers quite well, although you do need to be prepared and it wasnt quite as happy doing it on hills at these speeds.

Our other car is a 2l 138bhp diesel and I dont feel particularly underpowered going from one car to the other, they are different cars and I think the 1.2 suits the nippy character of the 500. I'm happy to lose a bit of poke from not having the 1.4 to gain better fuel economy and £35 road tax by having the 1.2.

 

[306maxi]

I find that the 1.2 is fine on hills now that it has loosened up a bit... when it was new it did lose momentum a bit and you had to change down, but there are a couple of hills near me that i can now comfortably climb in 5th gear that before I would have had to change down for. Also when I went down to the new forest I found that I could cruise comfortably at 70-80 and pass other drivers quite well, although you do need to be prepared and it wasnt quite as happy doing it on hills at these speeds.

Our other car is a 2l 138bhp diesel and I dont feel particularly underpowered going from one car to the other, they are different cars and I think the 1.2 suits the nippy character of the 500. I'm happy to lose a bit of poke from not having the 1.4 to gain better fuel economy and £35 road tax by having the 1.2.

I tend to agree. I've driven the 1.4 and the 1.2 and the 1.4 wasn't really so much faster to justify spending all that extra money as well as losing a big whack of economy, the cheap tax and the more comfortable ride of teh 1.2.

Percymon, all the specs (lounge, sport and pop) have the same suspension, it's the 1.4 that has harsher suspension than the 1.2 regardless of whether it's lounge, sport or pop. As for someone saying 16" wheels make for a more comfortable ride than 15" wheels I'll let you make your own mind up about that...... The Panda 100hp has very similar suspension to the 1.4 500 and most owners have stayed on the standard 15's because the ride is rather choppy.

 

[RobW]

I tend to agree. I've driven the 1.4 and the 1.2 and the 1.4 wasn't really so much faster to justify spending all that extra money as well as losing a big whack of economy, the cheap tax and the more comfortable ride of teh 1.2.

Percymon, all the specs (lounge, sport and pop) have the same suspension, it's the 1.4 that has harsher suspension than the 1.2 regardless of whether it's lounge, sport or pop. As for someone saying 16" wheels make for a more comfortable ride than 15" wheels I'll let you make your own mind up about that...... The Panda 100hp has very similar suspension to the 1.4 500 and most owners have stayed on the standard 15's because the ride is rather choppy.

in my experience, it seems to calm the suspension down a bit - might be mass might be lower profile - and the slightly wider tyre helps grip

as for the 1.4 not being faster remember it thrives on revs:slayer:

 

[percymon]

Thanks for the replies so far and please keep them coming - the more opinions i get the better armed i am come testing a 1.4.

The extra cost of the 1.4 does limit my spec somewhat - i'm even thinking now about the ByDiesel spec 1.2 as it looks pretty good value for money and will be a bit different than a 1.4 lounge in plain white with side strips and fogs.

Not many have opted for ByDiesel for some reason

 

[chrome500]

My experience of a friends 1.2 showed it was a lot quieter than my 1.4 but I would be constantly frustrated with the performance. 1.4 will maintain speed in 6th on the motorway without having to change to 5th every time you get to a hill. I had a Grande Punto 1.4 16v before this and constantly having to change up and down between 5th and 6th on the motorway was really annoying. Some days I wish I had bought the 1.2 for the extra cost savings, but as soon as i drive the car i'm glad I went for the 1.4.

Above all though, the 1.4 engine is the best sounding engine of any car i've driven.

 

[Andreadoria56]

I do about 80 km a day on the motorway around Copenhagen in my Bella with the 1,2 engine.

Here the speed limit is 110 km/h but traffic often moves at 120 km/h in the outside lane.

I used to drive a 3,7 l V6 Jeep Cherokee and could overtake any car I wanted whenever I wanted.

In the morning when I drive to work in sparse traffic there's no difference in my driving pattern from the Jeep - I can overtake cars going 110 or even close to 120 if I want to as long as I have a decent approach.

Going home in more dense traffic and with lot's of lorries thrown in is a little different.

If I have to slow down to something like 90 behind a lorry and the outside lane is moving at 110 or above that's when I can't just pull out and expect to get up to speed without forcing cars behind me to slow down.

That's the only difference I've noticed and it just means I've changed the way I drive a little. I simple wait for the right moment to pull out.

It's not a great hardship. I sold the Jeep to save money and money I'm saving everytime I wait behind a lorry

Hope it helps even if I havn't recalculated for miles and gallons and all that

 

[RobW]

Thanks for the replies so far and please keep them coming - the more opinions i get the better armed i am come testing a 1.4.

The extra cost of the 1.4 does limit my spec somewhat - i'm even thinking now about the ByDiesel spec 1.2 as it looks pretty good value for money and will be a bit different than a 1.4 lounge in plain white with side strips and fogs.

Not many have opted for ByDiesel for some reason

check out ex demonstrators/nearly new and eBay for 1.4
i got mine off eBay for £8500

 

[Melanabb]

I have similar findings as the previous poster. I've downsized from 3L 248bhp to a 500 and I find it more fun to drive. I do not miss the oomoph except if I try to overtake slower vehicles without the longish runway (not wishing to slow down the traffic in the faster lane ) My husband is of different mind tho (he is well over 6 foot and finds the 500 little claustrophobic and restrictive in space). I found his car to be too large, unweildy and a nightmare to park - not to mention sooooo thirsty . I personally would not go for 1.4 but only as the costs are too high for not vastly better performance. If I had money to burn I would go for Abarth :devil:

 

[RobW]

1,242 8v FIRE: 60PS at 5,500rpm, 102Nm torque at 3,000rpm, 0-60 12.9 seconds, 55.4mpg, 119g/km CO2 so £35pa VED.

1,368cc 16v FIRE: 100PS at 6,000rpm, 131Nm torque at 4,250rpm, 0-60 in 10,5 seconds, 44.8mpg, 149g/km CO2.

1,248cc 16v Multijet diesel: 75PS at 4,000rpm, 145Nm torque at 1,500rpm, 0-60 in 12.5 seconds, 67.3mpg, 111g/km CO2 so £35pa VED.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=1162

2.4 seconds 0-60 is quite a big performance difference
also 30% more torque

 

[percymon]

1,242 8v FIRE: 60PS at 5,500rpm, 102Nm torque at 3,000rpm, 0-60 12.9 seconds, 55.4mpg, 119g/km CO2 so £35pa VED.

1,368cc 16v FIRE: 100PS at 6,000rpm, 131Nm torque at 4,250rpm, 0-60 in 10,5 seconds, 44.8mpg, 149g/km CO2.

1,248cc 16v Multijet diesel: 75PS at 4,000rpm, 145Nm torque at 1,500rpm, 0-60 in 12.5 seconds, 67.3mpg, 111g/km CO2 so £35pa VED.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=1162

2.4 seconds 0-60 is quite a big performance difference
also 30% more torque

Thanks for those - had already compared them to my current steed which when new was 0-62 12.8, Max 110 mph, 90bhp @ 4000 rpm and 202Nm at 1900rpm - yes its a Golf Tdi. I doubt it still has those figures afer 145k miles, but it does pull extremely well in gear . I know i'm going to have to drive a petrol 500 differently, irrespective of engine size. The Fiat figures are flywheel so the torque differnce at the wheels is more like 20% after transmission losses

 

[percymon]

check out ex demonstrators/nearly new and eBay for 1.4
i got mine off eBay for £8500

I need the scrappage deal to offset the silly 500 pricing.

I can get a brand new 1.4 16V GP Grande Punto for £7400 outside of the scrappage scheme which makes the 500 look a little ridiculous to be honest but we all know its not the cheapest , but the cutest, option out there

 

[Lloyd71]

2.4 seconds 0-60 is quite a big difference

As is £90 every year and £1,200 when you buy it though!

When are you ever going to need those extra 2 seconds in 0-60? Most cars on the road will still be quicker than you but you'll be using more fuel and paying more in running costs. You also lose out on the turning circle.

As for overtaking and the motorway, the roads these days are so busy you rarely find yourself in a position to make a fast overtaking maneuvre anyway and motorways are either rammed or completely empty, both of which won't cause there to be any difference in performance. Mine is only a 1.2 but it can make it up hills no worries and now it's reached 8,000 miles it seems to have loosened up massively. In 5th gear at 70mph the acceleration can still be felt fairly sharply!

For that £1,200 extra for the engine, you could almost add climate control, reverse sensors, interscope and the electrochromatic dipping mirror! There's only £100 difference.

 

[RobW]

When are you ever going to need those extra 2 seconds in 0-60?

every day :devil:

 

[percymon]

Well have rung 4 dealers to try to test a 1.4 and not one of them has a car !

One delaer now telling me its only sportspec that has different suspension, and that a 1.2 and 1.4 lounge are the same. Yesterday another dealer told me all 1.2s were the same and all 1.4s the same but firmer than 1.2s ! They either don't know or they just make it up !

Have managed to get a drive in a 1.2 sport on 15s on Friday am, and the dealer has a green ByDiesel Mjet in the showroom that i can have a good prod at

 

[306maxi]

Sure it's quicker, there is no doubt, but 2.4s is only the difference between a lukewarm hatch and a nippy city car. It's never going to be a quick car and the extra you pay for the extra performance is made worse by 20% worse fuel economy and more expensive road tax.

 

[306maxi]

As is £90 every year and £1,200 when you buy it though!

When are you ever going to need those extra 2 seconds in 0-60? Most cars on the road will still be quicker than you but you'll be using more fuel and paying more in running costs. You also lose out on the turning circle.

As for overtaking and the motorway, the roads these days are so busy you rarely find yourself in a position to make a fast overtaking maneuvre anyway and motorways are either rammed or completely empty, both of which won't cause there to be any difference in performance. Mine is only a 1.2 but it can make it up hills no worries and now it's reached 8,000 miles it seems to have loosened up massively. In 5th gear at 70mph the acceleration can still be felt fairly sharply!

For that £1,200 extra for the engine, you could almost add climate control, reverse sensors, interscope and the electrochromatic dipping mirror! There's only £100 difference.

Couldn't agree more with that. The wifes Scooby does 0-60 in 6.5 and while I do find it helps me out on country roads when I want to overtake, there's usually a car coming the other way stopping me from overtaking. Then on dual carriageways there's usually too much traffic for me to put my foot down or it's empty and a 1.2 would suffice.

Percy, as said before the 1.2's all have the same suspension, the 1.4's are all more stiffly.