Technical 500F rear springs

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Technical 500F rear springs

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May 27, 2010
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I have included a photo of the springs I have for my 500F.

You can note that it has a plastic sleeve around the last part of the coil. (I have three sets of 'original' coils and they all have this sleeve.)
From what I can work out this sleeve sits at the top of the spring.

Neither the Haynes manual, a Fiat parts catalog that I have or any of the spart parts images I have seen on the web mention or show this sleeve.

My questions are:
Am I correct in guessing the sleeve is at the top of the spring?
Should I try and replace the sleeves I have? (you can see that they have
worn through in a couple of places.
Should I just leave them as they are?
Should I remove the sleeves altogether?
Would the purpose of these be to reduce noise through to the cabin. (The only
flaw in my thought here is that their is a rubber bush at the top of the spring
assembly already)

Your collective thoughts would be appreciated.

(I was going to add the incentive of a reward of a loaf of bread or a free ticket on the Charlotte, but few would get the joke........)

SANY1039.JPG

Regards

Joe R
 
Joe,

My old springs also had these sleeves though the new replacement ones did not. The only comparison I have is on my other old Italian car (an Alfa). It does not have these sleeves on the front springs but does on the rear though the sleeves are on the bottom, not the top, of the spring. As the suspension is original (it's my next project) I guess it was like this from the factory.

I can't see any reason for including these sleeves - they seem to trap moisture and dirt and eventually promote rust. I don't have them on the Fiat and soon I won't have them on the Alfa.

I'll ask around and see if I can find out why they were fitted originally.

As to the reward - I don't need it. Any long distance travel I undertake nowadays is by air, not boat.

Chris
 
Thanks Chris.

The only reasoning I have that the sleeve is at the top is that there is oil on the unsleeved end. To me it makes sense that this is more likely that oil would be on the bottom of the spring. There also tended to be more of a dirt build up on the 'top' surface of the coils if the orientation was with the sleeve up.

You are correct about the corrosion, where the sleeve has worn away you can see some evidence.

I will probably strip the sleeves off and give the springs a quick paint and leave them at that for now.

Regards

Joe
 
Joe,
I've asked around and the general consensus is that the covers are there to prevent the clicking noise that occurs when the lower coils of the spring come together at full suspension compression. I'd have thought that the almighty thump that occurs at that point would drown out any minor clicking.
Most people seem to either remove them when they rebuild the suspension as they trap water and dirt or drive on less potholed roads so the suspension is not working quite as hard, or both ....
When I get to the rear suspension on my Alfa, the plastic covers, or what's left of them, will hit the bin.
Chris
 
Another couple of questions guys.

Can anyone tell me what the lighter piece of plastic in the photo's is and where it goes? It is shaped to fit the top or the bottom of the spring but I can't find reference to it anywhere.

Now I know it does not go on the top of the spring as that already has a rubber bush and a metal carrier. (This is clear in the manual and the parts catalog.) Does this mean it fits on the bottom?

Also, does anyone have a handy hint on getting the rear suspenion springs in place. I am making hard work of this at the moment.

SANY1089.JPG SANY1090.JPG
 
Joe,
I'm unsure where that piece goes - I still have both of mine lying around the garage somewhere. Could they be just bits of packing ??
I fitted my springs just after I refitted the rear suspension arms - I seem to recall that I had to fit the shock absorbers to stop the springs from falling out ....
At that stage of my rebuild the engine and gearbox etc. were still out of the car and none of the brake cables/hydraulics were connected, so the rear suspension arms swung freely in the breeze :eek:
Chris
 
Thanks for your response Chris.

Not sure why but I am making hard work of this. My car was in a similar state as you described yours was when I first tried.

My issue as I see it is that the suspension arm moves in an arc as I move it up. If I hold the spring in its top seat and swing the arm up, the bottom of the spring will not line up with the bottom seat unless I continue to jack the arm up and compress the spring.

The more I compress the spring, the less chance I have of slipping it across the 10 mm or so I think it needs to move to be in the bottom seat correctly. (and without weight in the car, I get to the point where the spring won't compress anymore and the car starts to lift.)

The only way I can see around this is to use a spring compressor but I don't know if I have enough space to use one.

I will try again tonight if I can.

Regards

Joe R
 
? Too much red paint making the springs too long ?? :D

With the car jacked up, my original springs literally fell out when I removed the rear shockies. The replacement springs are about 2.5-3.0cm shorter, so that may be why I had no difficulty fitting them.

Maybe you just need to gently compress one side of the spring so it's bent into an arc ?

Chris
 
Chris,

your idea about compressing one side to form an arc indicates that somehow you understood my convoluted description.

I started doing something similar on the weekend but thought better of it because there was a fair bit of tension being generated.

Perhaps shorter springs makes all the difference?

Will try again afresh on the weekend as I did not have to opportunity tonight.


Regards

Joe R
 
All,

had another look at what I was doing with the spring install and realised that I had the springs located incorrectly in suspension arm. Rotated the spring about 90 degrees from where I started and everything fell into place.

Thought the left and right would be mirror each other but they don't. This messed with my head again for about 10 minutes until I accepted the fact.

Hope I have it done correctly, I will visit another 500 that I have access to to check.

We live and learn.

Regards

Joe.
 
Joe,
I still have the old springs from my 500, as well as a pair from a 126 (Niki 650) and coincidentally at present I also have the springs out of both the front and rear of my old Alfa as I'm rebuilding the suspension. In every case, the left and right hand sides are identical, not mirror-imaged, and I can't think of a good reason why it should be otherwise.
Any more springs in my garage and I'll have to buy a bigger mop ...
Chris
 
Found this old thread about the springs. While I am waiting my generator from germany I had some time to change the shock absorbers. Quite easy job.
I cant find any explosion pictures about the springs and these parts that joe have also asked?
Can anyone confirm me about these. When I unbolted the springs they had only somekind of rubber"hose" at the bottom part.
So how about the upper part, or both?
Found these:
http://www.fiat500ricambi.com/fiat500/Rear+axles/AA1008
http://www.fiat500ricambi.com/fiat500/Rear+axles/AA1010

I dont know how they should work but if I think clearly you first mount the rubber(against body) and the metal part comes against the rubber and the spring is last one?
Or are they even needed?

Jake
 
The rubber part goes in the metal part and the whole thing sits between the top of the spring and the body. They usually stay in place when the spring is removed but can be simply prised out if you want to change/inspect them
 
ok thanks. So probably the parts are there, I didnt pay so much attention when I removed the springs.
 
Joe,
I used to work for a company that does suspension dampers for motor racing. The larger part of the spring goes on the bottom. The end of the coil should thread through a hole in the mount and then come up against a stop. The plastic is there to stop the bare metal of the spring sitting in water and to stop the clunk of the metal as the spring compresses. As you've already noted these usually just end up tearing and splitting anyway. The plastic bits on the red springs are there for the same sort of thing. To damp out noise between the metal of the spring and its mount. Hope this helps
Damian
 
Hi Boys;
Look on the 'Axel Gerstle' site--rear suspension---it shows the spring, metal plate and rubber-bush and how they all fit together(y)
 
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