Technical 500 brakes
- Thread starter Baglady1990
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Technical 500 brakes
OP
OP
This is the one I’ve been watching https://youtu.be/PXuqUdopGp8
This is exactly what JR says a simple job turns into nightmare rears cylinders will need replacing when you snap off the bleed bolt, cylinder bolts almost impossible to remove, pipe nut gets chewed up attempting to undo, then the pipe gets twisted upon tightening, fronts also bleed valves snap off, then you find calipers not that common a replacement part(unusually for the 500 where many parts are cheap) so expensive, so in the end the fluid doesn't get replaced at all after about 8 years old?
Good evening "Baglady" Hope you are keeping well with all this virus stuff going around?
Your discs do look quite well worn. I've seen much worse though but, as you are fitting new pads I would be fitting new discs too myself. Had there been a good depth of pad still left though I would be happy to wait 'till new pads were needed before changing the discs, providing the other side of the disc is in similar, or better, condition and not deeply scored etc.
As mentioned above, I would just leave the slider pins alone, mine are seized in place anyway. If you remove the little bottom pin and push the main piston back into the caliper a bit you will find you can just swing the caliper up out of the way. As Jack says you can carefully prize the little rubber dust seal out of it's groove and slide the caliper off the pin, leaving the pin in place, so you can check it and apply a little silicone or ceramic grease if needed (It's generally recommended it's better not to use a mineral based grease on slider pins as it can slowly destroy the rubber gators and some contain rubber bushing which will swell and jam things up.) However if the gators (seals) are in good condition and the caliper slides sideways easily on the slider pin you are probably safe just to leave it alone - I bet a lot of garages would just do this and leave it alone if it slides nice and smooth.
Although I doesn't cover everything we are talking about here you might like to read about what i did with Becky's front brakes shortly after we bought her. If so here's a link: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/459983-beckys-brakes-few-surprises.html?459983=#post4339097
As far as buying pads and discs I just go to my local factor and buy whatever he's selling to the trade. For some time now he's been selling the APEC brand and I've got 3 (or is it 4?) of the family vehicles running around on them now, no one has complained and I find them "fine". For more dedicated engine and specialist Fiat parts I buy from Shop4parts. I've had quite a bit of their stuff now, suspension parts, shock absorbers, top mounts, coolant pipes, gearbox seals, etc and everything they've supplied has been of high quality.
Good luck with it all
regards
Jock
Your discs do look quite well worn. I've seen much worse though but, as you are fitting new pads I would be fitting new discs too myself. Had there been a good depth of pad still left though I would be happy to wait 'till new pads were needed before changing the discs, providing the other side of the disc is in similar, or better, condition and not deeply scored etc.
As mentioned above, I would just leave the slider pins alone, mine are seized in place anyway. If you remove the little bottom pin and push the main piston back into the caliper a bit you will find you can just swing the caliper up out of the way. As Jack says you can carefully prize the little rubber dust seal out of it's groove and slide the caliper off the pin, leaving the pin in place, so you can check it and apply a little silicone or ceramic grease if needed (It's generally recommended it's better not to use a mineral based grease on slider pins as it can slowly destroy the rubber gators and some contain rubber bushing which will swell and jam things up.) However if the gators (seals) are in good condition and the caliper slides sideways easily on the slider pin you are probably safe just to leave it alone - I bet a lot of garages would just do this and leave it alone if it slides nice and smooth.
Although I doesn't cover everything we are talking about here you might like to read about what i did with Becky's front brakes shortly after we bought her. If so here's a link: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/459983-beckys-brakes-few-surprises.html?459983=#post4339097
As far as buying pads and discs I just go to my local factor and buy whatever he's selling to the trade. For some time now he's been selling the APEC brand and I've got 3 (or is it 4?) of the family vehicles running around on them now, no one has complained and I find them "fine". For more dedicated engine and specialist Fiat parts I buy from Shop4parts. I've had quite a bit of their stuff now, suspension parts, shock absorbers, top mounts, coolant pipes, gearbox seals, etc and everything they've supplied has been of high quality.
Good luck with it all
regards
Jock
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Just been watching "your" video - it's a good one isn't it and shows the technique of swinging the caliper up on that top slider pin. I think his actual disc is in worse condition than your's but even it is a long way from being the worst I've ever seen. You really wouldn't believe some that I've seen with no friction material left at all and the noise of metal on metal is unmistakable! You'd think that alone would alert most people (and actually it does, but they still drive to the workshop!) Ultimately of course you'll grind everything away until the piston pops out of the caliper bore - then life gets really exciting! The only thing I might mildly criticize is that I think he's being a bit too liberal with the copaslip grease on that hub. "A thin coating" is how it's often described not "slapped on" like that. I would worry that some of the excess will throw off and get onto the braking surfaces between the pad and disc face with disastrous results!
stay safe
Jock
stay safe
Jock
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A new "fitting kit" might be an idea, this includes new pins that hold the caliper in place at the bottom and new stainless parts etc and is cheap, if you really want, I managed to get new QH discs and pads for only £24 now £30 but still great value.
Having seen a video or two with the 1.2 brakes
I must say the caliper design on the 1.3 and other varieties with the more conventional twin slide pins seems more practical and easy to work on design
I must say the caliper design on the 1.3 and other varieties with the more conventional twin slide pins seems more practical and easy to work on design
Just having a further wee think about all that grease. We put grease on that hub to try to stop corrosion seizing the disc to the hob. I've seen discs so well seized on that you can't shift them with a hammer and have to cut them off with an angle grinder! What's worth knowing though is that it's not corrosion of the flat surface (where the wheel studs screw into) that's the problem. But be aware this surface must be flat, so free of corrosion and "bits", when you fit the new disc or it won't run "true" (it'll wobble) so you'll get vibration and grabbing when you brake. The bit that causes the disc to "freeze" to the huh though is the outside diameter of the hub where the disc fits over it - a bit like the lid of a tin, if you get my drift? or the smaller diameter where it fits over the hub near the axle nut. If serious rust builds up here it will jam the disc in place. So you see, you don't need any more than a light skim of grease (high melting point of course like the copperslip) on any of it, but don't assemble it dry or it'll rust eventually.
By the way I've seen people - so called "skilled mechanics" swinging a lump (club) hammer - sort of junior sized sledgehammer - at a seized disc and even hitting it so hard the disk itself breaks up. DON'T DO THIS. That hub is on the end of the axle which is running directly in the wheel bearing. If you belt ten shades of s**t out of the disc with a big metal hammer, all that energy and, more to the point, shock loadings are being transferred directly into the bearing races and balls/rollers. ball and roller bearings are BRITTLE! definitely not a good idea to be hitting them, even indirectly, with a big steel hammer! I do try with a hammer in this sort of situation but I have both a large and quite heavy lead loaded rubber faced hammer and a leather faced hammer. If it doesn't move with one of those I get the angle grinder out. On some designs you might get a hub puller on, but this would not be common.
By the way I've seen people - so called "skilled mechanics" swinging a lump (club) hammer - sort of junior sized sledgehammer - at a seized disc and even hitting it so hard the disk itself breaks up. DON'T DO THIS. That hub is on the end of the axle which is running directly in the wheel bearing. If you belt ten shades of s**t out of the disc with a big metal hammer, all that energy and, more to the point, shock loadings are being transferred directly into the bearing races and balls/rollers. ball and roller bearings are BRITTLE! definitely not a good idea to be hitting them, even indirectly, with a big steel hammer! I do try with a hammer in this sort of situation but I have both a large and quite heavy lead loaded rubber faced hammer and a leather faced hammer. If it doesn't move with one of those I get the angle grinder out. On some designs you might get a hub puller on, but this would not be common.
Oh my, I've just watched the first video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrF_FIDahKw&feature=youtu.be
Now that is a disc that's needing changed! the rough marking on it's face is due to metal to metal contact due to the pad being worn out completely.
I don't like the way he tackles the bottom pin. A wee spray of release oil and tapped through with a punch is the way to go. The lugs on the carrier casting are quite easy to break off and levering as he is risks this happening. He also toils unnecessarily with retracting the piston, the chap in the other video deals with it much more satisfactorily. But the big no no is the hammer. Look how hard he's hitting it. Every one of those blows is being transferred directly through the hub into the wheel bearing.
Ok, it gets done a lot - using a hammer in this way - and seldom is there an immediate issue for the customer but I wonder how many early failures of bearings are down to the minute damage caused to a bearing track when the hammer was being applied?
PS Using the hammer to remove the seized inner pad as he does is no problem. In fact it demonstrates how these pads tend to seize in place if routine maintenance is skimped.
Now that is a disc that's needing changed! the rough marking on it's face is due to metal to metal contact due to the pad being worn out completely.
I don't like the way he tackles the bottom pin. A wee spray of release oil and tapped through with a punch is the way to go. The lugs on the carrier casting are quite easy to break off and levering as he is risks this happening. He also toils unnecessarily with retracting the piston, the chap in the other video deals with it much more satisfactorily. But the big no no is the hammer. Look how hard he's hitting it. Every one of those blows is being transferred directly through the hub into the wheel bearing.
Ok, it gets done a lot - using a hammer in this way - and seldom is there an immediate issue for the customer but I wonder how many early failures of bearings are down to the minute damage caused to a bearing track when the hammer was being applied?
PS Using the hammer to remove the seized inner pad as he does is no problem. In fact it demonstrates how these pads tend to seize in place if routine maintenance is skimped.
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OP
OP
Well lots to think about! I won’t be hammering away on the discs! But I will see how it goes with my rubber mallet ? obviously I had the drivers side pads out today as I took piccys to be honest I followed the video I watched (not the one hammering)! I got the pin out and adjusted the piston & the calliper lifted to reveal the pads obviously I have put them back for now as my new stuff comes wed.... thank god the weather will be good!!!!
I have a metal brush ready & the copper grease though I’ll just put a thin coat on as recommended [emoji6]
I’ve not looked at the passenger pad yet however the disc is in the same state as the other! I’ve also just learned that the passenger side pad has a sensor hence the wire I’ve seen going to it that the other doesn’t have .....
Will investigate wed as I’ve had no light to indicate brake wear ..... maybe that pad isn’t as bad? Maybe I don’t have a sensor?
I’m a bit nervous or I will be Wednesday [emoji23] but I’ll take it slow and if I get stuck...... I’ll have to get my ass on here!!!
I have a metal brush ready & the copper grease though I’ll just put a thin coat on as recommended [emoji6]
I’ve not looked at the passenger pad yet however the disc is in the same state as the other! I’ve also just learned that the passenger side pad has a sensor hence the wire I’ve seen going to it that the other doesn’t have .....
Will investigate wed as I’ve had no light to indicate brake wear ..... maybe that pad isn’t as bad? Maybe I don’t have a sensor?
I’m a bit nervous or I will be Wednesday [emoji23] but I’ll take it slow and if I get stuck...... I’ll have to get my ass on here!!!
Reading your posts just gives me the feeling you can do this! But come back to us if you want a little reassuring.
Regards
Jock
Regards
Jock
Hey Baglady, I just realized, looking at your avatar picture in your post, that it shows a white 500 with glass roof? Is that the actual car you have now? If so I guess Becky and it could be related. Here's a picture of Becky:
OP
OP
Haha yes it is! She’s my Gucci lucci they maybe sisters from another mista [emoji23]
OP
OP
New set all done on drivers side! Just other side to do! Geez the old set are in a terrible condition!
They were definitely past there best and worth changing
Great work
Nice to see all that lovely copper grease. Whoever does the job next time will have a much easier time dismantling it than you did.
I don't think I want to know what you used that chisel for
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See, knew you could do it! That looks like a lovely job! - hope that didn't sound condescending or sexist, it's not meant to. Interesting to see the inner face of the disc - last photo. It's not unusual, in my experience, to find this (That is outer face in much better nick than the inner, probably because the wheel givers some shelter to the outer face - especially if it's a steel) So don't assume, perhaps when you're doing a service, that the disc will be in serviceable condition without looking at both sides. If you have alloys with a very "open" pattern, maybe thin spokes? the temptation is to glance at the discs and pads through the wheel and assume all is Ok from what you can see of the outer face. I believe the wheels should come off at every service so you can inspect properly and, especially if you have alloys, then you can put a light smear of anti seize around the hub boss and inside of the wheel to prevent corrosion seizing the wheel to the hub - This was what had happened to my Ibiza. It was dealer maintained for it's 3 year warranty period then last spring (so at 4 years old) I took over servicing and had great difficulty getting the rear wheels off. Had to lie on the ground and vigorously kick them! I don't think they had been off since she left the factory! Thank goodness I didn't get a puncture on a dark and rainy night!
remember to degrease the discs before using , they are oiled at the factory to stop rust before they get on car, the oil also stops the brakes working if it's not cleaned off with solvent.
If you ordered pagid brake pads you were sent eicher by mistake , make sure you get the price difference refunded
Grand job
If you ordered pagid brake pads you were sent eicher by mistake , make sure you get the price difference refunded
Grand job
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OP
OP
Great work
Nice to see all that lovely copper grease. Whoever does the job next time will have a much easier time dismantling it than you did.
I don't think I want to know what you used that chisel for
Haha the chisel was to hold the old disc while I unscrewed the bolts tho it didn’t work so used a flat head instead
OP
OP
Thanks chaps!! The passenger side was a bugger to get off!!(disc) it had rusted in place just had to be patient and use pressure and pushing power!! Thanks for all your help as always & the encouragement! Just tested the brakes & all good!! Yaaay!!!
