General 500 Abarth EsseEsse

[Nuova500]

You can get a 1 year old civic type R for £13,000 thats more car and more performance than the 500ss for LESS money.

Can't help but be dissapointed at this i may be putting nails in its coffin but with only 160bhp its not going to compete with the current hot hatch bunch. and the other thing if i am to believe the specs of the ss it gains its extra 25 bhp from a bmc air filter and no other engine tuning ???

Yeah, but you can buy a one year old Grande Punto instead of a new standard 500 for less money, but people arent. Every hot hatch on the market is just ordinary to look at, apart from big wheels and arches etc. The 500 Abarth isnt, and thats why itll be a hit.

 

[j3bnl]

Can't help but be dissapointed at this i may be putting nails in its coffin but with only 160bhp its not going to compete with the current hot hatch bunch.

There is more to performance than just horse power my friend.
Handling, suspension etc all come into it. I am sure it will be plenty enough to keep up with the other cars in its class regardless.

 

[white 500]

don't get me wrong the 500 abarth would always be my personal choice and probably will be next year i would not go for the ss kit though as at around 3 grand you don't realy get much and i dont like the wheels plus it makes it more expensive than a mini cooper s. yes it will be the quick enough but cars like this get compared together so the 500 is up against cars with over 50bhp more that will handle just as well

 

[[email protected]]

Yeah, but you can buy a one year old Grande Punto instead of a new standard 500 for less money, but people arent. Every hot hatch on the market is just ordinary to look at, apart from big wheels and arches etc. The 500 Abarth isnt, and thats why itll be a hit.

It will be a hit, but as people spec up and approach the £20k mark with all the kits & bits, then there is a whole heap of stiff competition which I feel the 500 would struggle against in dynamics, Golf Gti, Focus ST, Civic R, hot Seat's to name a few.

But, the numbers earmarked for the UK would suggest that Fiat is well aware of this competition and allocated accordingly.

Personally a massive fan of the wife's Golf Gti, but await the Abarth with interest !

 

[j3bnl]

don't get me wrong the 500 abarth would always be my personal choice and probably will be next year i would not go for the ss kit though as at around 3 grand you don't realy get much and i dont like the wheels.

I personally agree with you there.
If I am able to get one in a couple of years time I would go for the standard version with leather and climate (my preference).
I read over on a civic forum the same complaints when it was announced that the new shape type r would have the same bhp as the old model. You cant please everyone but as already stated elsewhere in this thread the ltd numbers will ensure that it will sell anyway.

 

[AlexK]

don't get me wrong the 500 abarth would always be my personal choice and probably will be next year i would not go for the ss kit though as at around 3 grand you don't realy get much and i dont like the wheels.

I don't think it'll be that much.

Remember, the GP Abarth Esseesse kit includes a turbo, injectors, pipework, and a whole bunch of other enginey bits. The 500 Abarth Esseesse kit doesn't. Consequently, it should be quite a bit cheaper.

 

[white 500]

I don't think it'll be that much.

Remember, the GP Abarth Esseesse kit includes a turbo, injectors, pipework, and a whole bunch of other enginey bits. The 500 Abarth Esseesse kit doesn't. Consequently, it should be quite a bit cheaper.

true i would still recon 2.5 to 3 grand though, isn't the punto ss kit £4,000?

 

[AlexK]

Most are quoting around £4,300 at the mo, although they're still arguing about labour costs - it takes 2 days to fit. The 500 kit is much simpler (i.e. quicker to fit), so I'd guess about £2k.

 

[j3bnl]

I seem to remember reading that it was estimated that the ss would come in at around the 15 1/2k.
It will all depend how much work is involved as said.

 

[Portti]

The pricing of the EsseEsse kit is an interesting subject. I believe that the EsseEsse kit for Grande Punto Abarth in Germany is 4,500 eur + installation. If the same price applies to 500 Abarth then I personally think that it will be hard to justify the purchase of the kit.

I'm hoping to buy an Abarth 500 from Germany in the spring/summer 2009 and I think that the standard 135 bhp is too little. I currently drive an Alfa 147 GTA with 250 bhp/1,360 kg and if the Abarth 500 would have had approx. 180 bhp with less than 1,100 kg it would have had a good power/weight ratio.

Okay the EsseEsse has 160 bhp but I don't like the fact that you have to buy the kit separately. Also if you look at what else you get compared to standard Abarth it doesn't look very tempting proposition to me.

The price with the kit is so high that you get other nice cars too at that price.

 

[j3bnl]

The pricing of the EsseEsse kit is an interesting subject.

The price with the kit is so high that you get other nice cars too at that price.

Pricing makes or breaks any car IMHO.
I do agree with you if the SS kit is too expensive it may price itself out of the market and pit itself up against some cars that are way out of its league.

 

[[email protected]]

Be interesting to see how it all pans out. If Fiat make some decent margin on the kit then we could see the pricing re-aligned. Similarly, if targets are not being met then again may see a reduction or the kit being withdrawn....

 

[stb155]

I dont get why they can't built in the "esseesse parts" in the factory.
Where is the sense in buying a new car for 19000€ and then spend another +5000€ for replacing the Turbo/Springs/Wheels/Brakediscs+Pads/Fuelinjectors ... against the tuning parts.
What to do with the "old" parts ? sell on ebay ?


If they would built in the good stuff at the factory it would be a lot cheaper, you would pay only the difference between the stock and the upgraded parts. (for the worker in the factory its no differnece to mount turbo A or B or 16 or 17" wheels)


With the kit you pay total ~25.000€ for a Fiat 500 (not "a lot of car")with:
- Only 160hp (The Punto gets 155 out of the stock 1.4, why the 500 needs a different Turbo for 160hp ?
- Only 5 Gears
- Only small brakes (compared to the Punto's 4 piston fixed caliper)

IMHO the Grande Punto Abarth is a great deal , with the 500 they got a bit on the wrong way (less car for same cash) and with the kits they went completley mad...

The kit would only make some sense if it would be possible to put it on the 100hp 1.4
~5000€ for 100 to 160hp , twice the torque, much better suspension, 185/15" to 205/17" ... that sounds like value for money.

But 5000€ for +35hp, bit more torque, few mm lower susp. (the stock Abarth is already much better that the 100hp sport suspension) 195/16" to 205/17"
sounds like something for ppl with too much money...

edit:
ups..
Maybe the esseesse kit for the 500 not includes a different turbo (and then it should be much cheaper than the kit for the GP)

Just found that, it says the esseesse still has the IHI RHF3 turbo from the stock 500 Abarth.

 

[ClubAbarth]

In regards to all the money talk, what price do you pay for perfection .

 

[OPC]

In regards to all the money talk, what price do you pay for perfection .

I don't think that the standard Abarth, or esseesse are perfection, especially in the eyes of the UK buyer. I'll wait to see some proper tests on UK roads and get a test drive myself before making my own mind up though.

It's likely that the standard Abarth will sell well if they put it up for £13.5K and the esseesse might do okay if it is £16K. But if the esseesse is priced anything like the Punto version and it might be, (it's being suggested that it will have the Q2 diff and different seats for example), it will only sell to a few mad Italian car fans.

No hardcore Italian performance car has ever sold well.

 

[AlexK]

I don't get the continued speculation about what the kit contains. This is the official press release I posted on Tuesday, and is now available across the internet:-

http://www.myabarth.co.uk/2008/09/fiat-500-abarth-esseesse-technical-specifications/

There's no replacement turbo, no limited-slip diff (the 500 has Fiat's Torque Transfer Control system anyway), no four-wheel drive (as speculated the other day), no replacement seats, yada, yada...

The esseesse kit contains: updated ECU software, BMC air filter, ventilated brake discs (front & rear), high-perf brake pads, lowered springs, 17" alloys, 205/40 ZR 17 Pirelli Pzero tyres, tyre pressure sensors, esseesse badges, and a key cover.

That's it.

Oh, and if you don't like the white wheels, you can choose titanium instead.

As for pricing, the GPA costs £13,500 so the 500 Abarth will be less than that. The 500 Esseesse kit will obviously be less than the £4k-ish of the GPA Esseesse kit since it includes about half the parts.

I reckon something like £12k for a 500 Abarth makes it an absolute steal, personally.

 

[white 500]

I don't get the continued speculation about what the kit contains. This is the official press release I posted on Tuesday, and is now available across the internet:-

http://www.myabarth.co.uk/2008/09/fiat-500-abarth-esseesse-technical-specifications/

There's no replacement turbo, no limited-slip diff (the 500 has Fiat's Torque Transfer Control system anyway), no four-wheel drive (as speculated the other day), no replacement seats, yada, yada...

The esseesse kit contains: updated ECU software, BMC air filter, ventilated brake discs (front & rear), high-perf brake pads, lowered springs, 17" alloys, 205/40 ZR 17 Pirelli Pzero tyres, tyre pressure sensors, esseesse badges, and a key cover.

That's it.

Oh, and if you don't like the white wheels, you can choose titanium instead.

As for pricing, the GPA costs £13,500 so the 500 Abarth will be less than that. The 500 Esseesse kit will obviously be less than the £4k-ish of the GPA Esseesse kit since it includes about half the parts.

I reckon something like £12k for a 500 Abarth makes it an absolute steal, personally.

it doesn't mention an uprated ecu !! if you use the ratio of the current 500's the difference between the 1.2 and 1.4 is £1,400. base for a 1.4 is £10,900 if fiat use the same ratio then it should be £12,300 for an abarth then i still think 3 grand for the ss making the 500ss £15,300 (£900) cheeper than mini cooper s, so i recon you could be right . i am going to wait for a test drive before ordering one though...

 

[OPC]

I don't get the continued speculation about what the kit contains. This is the official press release I posted on Tuesday, and is now available across the internet:-

http://www.myabarth.co.uk/2008/09/fiat-500-abarth-esseesse-technical-specifications/

There's no replacement turbo, no limited-slip diff (the 500 has Fiat's Torque Transfer Control system anyway), no four-wheel drive (as speculated the other day), no replacement seats, yada, yada...

The esseesse kit contains: updated ECU software, BMC air filter, ventilated brake discs (front & rear), high-perf brake pads, lowered springs, 17" alloys, 205/40 ZR 17 Pirelli Pzero tyres, tyre pressure sensors, esseesse badges, and a key cover.

That's it.

Oh, and if you don't like the white wheels, you can choose titanium instead.

As for pricing, the GPA costs £13,500 so the 500 Abarth will be less than that. The 500 Esseesse kit will obviously be less than the £4k-ish of the GPA Esseesse kit since it includes about half the parts.

I reckon something like £12k for a 500 Abarth makes it an absolute steal, personally.

Unless I'm looking in the wrong place, the only thing that I can see on the official Italian Abarth 500 website is the mention of "160 horsepower" and nothing else. I've seen what you mention on places like italiaspeed and even some other websites taking about figures close 200BHP, which if definitely wrong for the esseesse. I can't see anything official from Abarth, did you get the information from Abarth?

Maybe the Paris International Motorshow will tell us more?

The AGP is 18100 euros in Italy and the A500 is 18500 euros. Could this be an indication to what it will cost in the UK?

 

[ClubAbarth]

AlexK Although it seems strange, the smaller (and thus in some minds, inferior) 500 will actually cost more than Grande Punto...

I think it's again based on the fact that this car has attracted instant "wants" from the people who see it, unlike the Grande Punto which is still a nice car, but not my and a lot of other peoples cup of tea compared to the 500.

 

[trackdayqueen]

Pricing makes or breaks any car IMHO.
I do agree with you if the SS kit is too expensive it may price itself out of the market and pit itself up against some cars that are way out of its league.

Yep this is a worry. The essesse is firmly in Cooper S territory and that means it will have a very had job upsurping the benchmark.

I would not expect the Essesse to sell in anywhere near the number that the Cooper S does.

Its individuality is very appealing and you know it will be a very rare sight on UK roads, but I reckon a lot of people will plump for a Cooper S if choosing between the two.