Technical 4x4 no ABS module in MultiEcuScan

[MajstrCz]

Hello dear Panda owners, after extensive brakes rebuild (including brake pipes), I took my 2008 1.2 4x4 for a test ride. After cca 3 kilometers it showed ABS and EBD failure, my suspicion was faulty connector on the rear left wheel, where I was also changing the sensor during the rebuils. However, the connector looked solid, so I ordered a green ODB extension and plugged it in. Unfortunately, MultiEcuScan was only able to detect power steering and engine ecu. I did a cross check on my Alfa where it detected the ABS unit flawlessly. I checked all the fuses. Does this mean that the ABS module itself has most likely just failed? Many thanks for any help.

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

Looking at the multiecuscan.net website it seems the green adapter is the correct one.

Can you see the power steering module? It seems that is requires the same green adapter. If so, that would be a proof the adapter is OK. If not, I would not blame the ABS module.

Have you tried scanning for errors on the body module?

 

[varesecrazy]

Worth Just 'search for devices", rather than looking for a specific ABS module

That might help

 

[MajstrCz]

I used the "Scan" feature to list the available modules first. Also the power steering module (and engine) appeared in the scan results, so the adapter seems fine.

 

[the green vanper]

Without the green adapter, can the interface connect properly to other modules? What kind of interface is that?

I assume there should be a fuse in the ABS system. Is the fuse OK?

What I've ment are you 100% sure it is OK, have you taken it out and swap for another one with the same current value?

 

[koalar]

More likely just a problem with MultiECUscan

The 4x4 uses stability control and later cars used the abs for hill decent

Your not the only person thats had problems connecting the 4x4 with the abs in MultiECUscan

Fiat Panda 4x4 1.2 2007 ECU - ABS no connection help please! - Multiecuscan

EBD is critical, it's not safe to drive until it's fixed

If you have to brake hard the car will spin out of control

If the car had no problem with ABS originally it's almost certain it something you have done, when you changed the pipes did the ABS module run dry

 

[MajstrCz]

Without the green adapter, can the interface connect properly to other modules? What kind of interface is that?

I assume there should be a fuse in the ABS system. Is the fuse OK?

What I've ment are you 100% sure it is OK, have you taken it out and swap for another one with the same current value?

Yes, it can connect and I think its Mobilly USB VAG OBD-II. Regarding the fuses I checked F87 and F23 (even by swapping with another).

 

[MajstrCz]

More likely just a problem with MultiECUscan

The 4x4 uses stability control and later cars used the abs for hill decent

Your not the only person thats had problems connecting the 4x4 with the abs in MultiECUscan

Fiat Panda 4x4 1.2 2007 ECU - ABS no connection help please! - Multiecuscan

EBD is critical, it's not safe to drive until it's fixed

If you have to brake hard the car will spin out of control

If the car had no problem with ABS originally it's almost certain it something you have done, when you changed the pipes did the ABS module run dry

The module did not run dry, we refilled and bleeded the brakes before connecting the battery.

 

[the green vanper]

According to the attached eLearn doc also the F04 fuse is in the circuit.

It contains the wiring diagram, components location and a description. Might be helpful.

 

[koalar]

I used the "Scan" feature to list the available modules first. Also the power steering module (and engine) appeared in the scan results, so the adapter seems fine.

The abs and steering are on different pins on a standard car

How the Abs communicate with the OBDII port depending on year, dualogic and so on

It more likely it's a problem with MultiECUscan

ABS is communicating to the body computer, the body computer is communicating to the dash to put on the errors

I would not be messing around with fuses or the abs module, we already have one introduced error, we don't need any more, the more you touch the harder it will become

The less we touch the less we have to check

I wanted to avoid going down this rabbit hole altogether, but from eper both panda 1.2 post 2008

We have this

Vs this

Plus the 4x4 normally has pretty unique wiring, the throttle body is only fitted to the 4x4 and dialogic, the wiring to the MAP sensor is different colour and so on

 

[the green vanper]

First, not sure if it is the 'post 2008' Panda, as (at least according to eLearn) the change happened in October 2008. So more likely it's the 'pre 2008' one.

Then, the doc I shared is from the 4x4 section. So, assuming this time FIAT was not wrong, it should have the correct wiring

Checking the fuse should not make the problem worse, it's the first standard check to do. They do blow sometimes.

But I totally agree with @koalar regarding the 4x4 issue with MultiEcuScan, it has no separate section, there are no specific menus, but as the wiring is completely different, might not be the correct tool to use.

However in the 2WD there's this functionnality for bleading the brakes:

I've read somewhere here that bleeding ABS brakes is also possible without MultiEcuScan, but if the OP's not familiar with the fact that ABS brakes need a special treatment, perphaps there's a lot of air in the system and once he used the brake a couple of times during the test drive it just pushed the air further away and the ABS system stopped to work as it should.

 

[koalar]

Faulty wasn't there originally, it would be a big coincidence

Air in the abs block, pump self tests, no pressure, fault code

With the absences of working diagnostic it's going to be hard to narrow down any faults

With the ignition on and the car stationary is there any error on the dash, if there is try and clear it by switching the ignition on and off a few times

If you can get the light off

Drive very slowly above 6 km/h but below 12 km/h

If the light comes on now the ABS module has failed it's self test, when it fire up it's pump and opens it's solenoids, try bleeding again

If the light comes only when it's above 12 km/h it's failed the ABS sensor test

You could record the sound of the ABS if you have a microphone

It's quite difficult to hear the ABS pump self test, but it is just possible, no radio, no blowers


See where we go from here, any friend likely to have professional scantool or friendly garage as a favour

 

[the green vanper]

First, not sure if it is the 'post 2008' Panda, as (at least according to eLearn) the change happened in October 2008. So more likely it's the 'pre 2008' one.

One thing I've just noticed: according to eLearn the modification of the 4x4 ABS was done earlier:

 

[koalar]

The module did not run dry, we refilled and bleeded the brakes before connecting the battery.

That's good

Did you replace any of the wheel bearings

In MultiECUscan try scanning for modules without the adapter

If you using a Bluetooth elm327

And you have access to a android phone

You can also try

AlfaOBD Demo - Apps on Google Play

Demo version of AlfaOBD software for Fiat Group cars native diagnostic

play.google.com

 

[chris3234]

If you scan with no adapters connected does it detect the abs ECU at all?

I know on my car's it will detect them all on a scan
You just can't connect to them without the correct adapter

 

[MajstrCz]

Well, I let the battery disconnected overnight (engine mountings replacement), after connecting the error reappeared immediately. I tried reading via AlfaODB as suggested by @koalar. That thing for some reason always connected to engine ECU. However, after updating MultiEcuScan to 5.3, I was able to see P0571 and U1706 logged in the engine ECU, see attachment. Not sure if this means that the ABS ecu is working, but not receiving output from sensor or its blown.

 

[koalar]

Start with the easy
P0571 brake pedal switch
If you slipped of the pedal it probably just needs adjusting

Brake lights on permanently! | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

In the position of the plug in the pic I’ve indicated the two pins with battery voltage. Is there a relay somewhere for the brakes?

www.fiatforum.com

Both codes are stored not active, so they should clear

Without the light on you should be able to perform the test above


Drive very slowly above 6 km/h but below 12 km/h

Does the light come on

Drive above 12 km/h does the light come on

NFR. Brake node
NCM. Engine management node

Communication problem between the ECU and ABS, however canbus errors can be random if the battery been low or disconnected

FAULT COMPLAINED OF
-Engine fails to start.-Gears do not engage (manoeuvre not permitted)
TECHNICAL CAUSE
Switch on brake pedal incorrectly adjusted/defective.
OPERATIONS IN NETWORK
NETWORK BEHAVIOUR STANDARDS TOWARDS THE CUSTOMER
-When this problem is reported and confirmed, reassure the Customer that it can be solved by carrying out a check on the control unit using the Examiner.-After the operation show the Customer what has been done and make sure they are satisfied.
SERVICE SOLUTION
If this problem is reported and confirmed, carry out a check on the control unit using the Examiner and, if necessary, replace the switch on the brake pedal following the instructions in the Operating Cycle below.
OPERATION CYCLE
When this problem is reported by the Customer:
-check the type of fault for the brake lights (failure to come on or on permanently)-check for errors in the control unit using the Examiner
If the brake lights are not working properly and/or there is the "simultaneous" presence of the following errors:
-P1760 in the Dualogic "MTA" system control unit-P0504 (Diesel versions) or P0571 (petrol versions) in the engine management control unit
adjust the travel of the switch push rod on the brake pedal and, if necessary, replace the swith following the instructions in the Service Manual (Op. 5550D10).

 

[koalar]

Can you clear the light

I am trying to find a way to move forwards

Your scan of available modules is missing a lot such as

Airbag
Body computer
Dash

Not just the ABS, I suspect it's more a problem with either the software or interface, it would be a big coincidence for the whole network to go down just as you were working on the brakes, body computer should at least be up there as it's direct on the canbus pins

Being able to clear the light would allow to know if the error is at ignition on, between 6 and 12 km/h when the ABS does a self test or above 12 km/h when the ABS does a wheel sensor test

Did you replace any hubs or wheel bearings

 

[MajstrCz]

Hello, after deleting the errors in the engine ECU via MES, the ABS and handbrake light stay on. I also checked the fuse F37 in the driver compartment, no change after pulling it out. Yes, I was replacing the rear diff left seal, so I had to remove and then put back that hub along with CV axle.

 

[koalar]

After clearing the codes is the light back on at ignition on

Are the codes the same