Technical 40mm TB and GSR

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Technical 40mm TB and GSR

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I asked yanniya about the diameter, and it's designed for a 65mm (iirc) filter to be fitted and the CDA can fit that size inlet. Cda's come in varying sizes to allow for engine size, and the yanniya bob and pipework is no longer than a standard bob and a gsr hose and isn't the newest GSR kit fitted with a CDA? Anything can work with a bit of inginuity, thats what moddings all about!

And what I meant by the pressed vents is that they're more for show. But yes I didn't think about the air pressure forcing hot air from the manifold over the filter and out the vent!!! :bang:

I think that whithout understanding complicated fluid dynamics, it is near impossible to make something perfect, and if you did it would be more luck than skill!! Just go with the idea you like the best! why doesn't everyone post a pic of they're induction set up and a description of how the car feels, that way it's easier few newcomers to make they're minds up.
plus we can all drool over the stuff we cant afford!!
Jon+Em
 
If you read carefully what Yannina said in the posts is that the largest cone filter that can be fitted is 127 x 90 mm. The smallest CDA is 185mm long excluding the mouth piece. The way it comes you have to take the pipe off and make your own pipe to fit it. It is a very tight squeeze with the F11i.
Anyway, that the GSR kits and the 40mm tb don't work together has not been proven at all. I offered a proper test before. You work from pure speculation. Let's start getting facts together. This is what to my understanding was the objective of the forum. And facts you can only get in two ways on this issue: Either on the RR or an acceleration meter that can meter continouisly.
 
Hi

That’s quite a calculation Oldschool got there :)
Theoretically is look like the GSR kit would work perfect with the "Tricker" TB.

Still I think that the opening in the original Cinq. 889cc bob is a little small for the 40mm TB - think about it - the bob is made for an 889cc engine with a 30mm TB. Why would FIAT make a 38mm opening when a 28mm could do it?

My theory is that the opening in the bob should be bigger than the TB size so it's the TB that has the limit and not the inlet on the bob...

I'm not up to offending any one just adding my opinion and experience to this discussion.

---

Se the picture of my bob in my signature. This bob is in aluminium and has a 64mm inlet opening going to the filter. Works fine for me...
 
What are you after in the "bob" - how in the world that took off, i don't know, hehe Gaz. Is it turbulence or more laminar flow? Is it the maximum amount of air through?

I can then tell you a bit about the theory if it helps.
 
I appreciate all theory, which is the first step to practical realisation.
But then we could get the discussion further. Aren. the inlet manifold ports to small? And what about the head ports? And we could go on. As I mentioned before there is too much speculation about and not enough facts.
Earlier this morning there was talk that the bop diameter is 35mm or so. The fact is that it is 38mm, which is a massive difference. A fact is also that the 40mm throttle body has got a marginal smaller cross section then the 38mm bop. A fact is also that the airflow in the centre is higher than on the outside.
A fact is that there is a minimal needeed airspeed in the tubing to increase the VE and there is a maximum airspeed from where the VE dramatically decreases.
And a fact is that we do not know how well the 40mm tb works with the GSR induction kit.
Tricker has got experience. I have got experience. We both are engineers. But we have nothing to prove anything at the moment other than unrepresentative testimony.
I think it is only fair to all forum members that we prove or disprove it on a factual foundation with a representative RR test.
Any other comment would mislead the members and this can't be the objective of the forum.
I am not having such a big ego that I do have to be right, when I am wrong just in case that this is what I am about.
There is a lot of conflicting posts.
Let's clear this matter up.
 
My guess would be that you need a 'bob' that is not too big that it slows down the air flow, but big enough not to bottleneck. So at a guess if youve got a hourglass shape airflow, then its a bit pointless. It would be better if you could have a 40mm bob entrance, so that you have the maximum air thrust going directly through the TB.
 
Calm down mate. The point of a forum is a discussion for people to put their ideas, etc forward. I am giving my personal opinion, and replied as a guess, not a cert, so as not to mislead. I appreciate that you know the answer which would be the rr test, but until that happens we can only try and predict the results through formulae. (y)
 
This is not a matter of getting hot.
Someone had an opinion before and that led to the general believe that things are proven. I am for a long time in the business. I have seen it often enough.
But rather than playing ping pong infinite wouldn't it better to make some progress?
 
Oldschool said:
But then we could get the discussion further. Aren. the inlet manifold ports to small? And what about the head ports? And we could go on. As I mentioned before there is too much speculation about and not enough facts.

But there is facts... ;)

Click on the bottom link in my signature and you will find that the facts has bin on this forum since Febuary ;)

RR test of my 40mm TB fitted on a completly standard 1108cc engine

Before and after printout:
no.2.JPG
no.3.JPG

Same RR, same car and same day

This is the fact saying that my 40 TB works.

This print is from a RR an another Sei 1108 only this one has a K&N open filter kit fitted together with the 40mm TB - nothing else is done to the engine.
rullefelt140205.jpg



I have show'n you mine - now show me your's :)
 
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Very conclusive results, I have seen them before which is why I'm looking forward to payday so I can get a TB and send it off to you Tricker!

My question now, is that could you just modify a bob on the GSR kit to perfectly match the TB, and I appear to have read conflicting posts on the actuall diameter of the GSR anyway, is it 35 or 38?

Cheers all
 
Sorry Tricker, but I am not good at posting pictures and graphs.

If you want to see some graphs go to
grsengineering.com
Click on gsr motorsport
then product listing
then Fiat
then Cinqueceno more information.
The website needs updating.
The graphs are curtesy of Redline Tuning.
By the way, I never have claimed that there is no advantage increasing the size of the throttle body.
The objective was to clear up the matter and still it is not clear to everybody that the bop is 38mm diameter.
And the second point was that without representative testing no conclusive evidence. If we don't do it properly we go down the Max Power route. Does anyone want to do that?

Edit: gsrengieering.com Sorry for speeling mistake!
 
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gesengineering.com doesn't lead anywhere.

Every one who follows this discussion should use gsrengineering.com instead.

I see your graphs and BTW. I never claimed that GSR's induction kit’s doesn't work well on the standard 30mm TB - in fact almost any open filter would do better than the standard Cinq/Sei. filter system.

Also this thread is about 40mm TB and GSR

If it was me who had the production of the GSR induction kit’s I would have tested this a long time ago to clear up any doubt in my product.


Randomman said:
My question now, is that could you just modify a bob on the GSR kit to perfectly match the TB, and I appear to have read conflicting posts on the actual diameter of the GSR anyway, is it 35 or 38?

Cheers all

The actual diameter of the GSR is 37-38mm.

Yes, I suppose you could machine the inlet on the bob to match it up for the 40mm TB - I haven't tried it tho.
 
I would do it if I had a car available to do this.
The Seicento is MPI.
The other Seicento is gone for a long time on loan.
Two Cinquecentos are reworked and totally stripped at ther moment.
The third one is a 899 that is in process of being converted to a 4x4.
The remaining Cinquecento is a 16v
The three Pandas are carburetor.
And the two Alfas are not FIREs.
And if I bring another car here my neighbours shoot me.
If someone out there has got one for testing, bring it on.
 
Right - I'll clear this up :D

Tricker send me one of your TB's to "test" please :D I also have my own GSR modified TB that I can test also. Club Fire Power is organising a small RR day at a respected RR location sometime soon - which will be a perfect opportunity to test these "claims"

We'll stick a F1i on both TB's (and even on the 30 and 32mm jobbies if it'll help!!) and see the results?

Howza that sound then???

Edit: This is me officially offering my car as a test subject - incase it wasn't clear - lol

Regards,
Matt

PS: Look forward to your response Tricker ;)
 
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