Technical 2013 500 multi air cranks slowly, won't start

[rodmex]

Hello there! Hoping I can gain some insight about a problem with my 2013 500 Sport with the MultiAir engine. Car has only 17,000 miles on the clock.
I parked this car and didn't use it for about 6 months, and when I went to start it, nada. Battery, I assumed, and replaced it with a new one. Nada. Very slow cranking. Gave up, put battery tender on it, and let it sit some more. Regardless of state of battery, or with jumpers on, or with a charger on in starting mode, it just wouldn't crank fast enough.
I used to park it in my alley, and sometimes I'd have to drive it through up to 6" of standing water in the alley. A friend looked at it and said my starter was fried, so we replaced that. Again, sooooooow cranking. He's also looked over/cleaned all the electrical connections from battery to starter.
Car is asking for an oil change. Is it possible that needing the oil change in combination with sitting that it has somehow 'gummed up' everything and won't turn at starting speed? I changed oil, but obviously not a good change as it was not warm. Plan to change again when/if I ever get it humming again.
Thanks for reading - any advice would be most appreciated.

 

[John202020]

Clip the jump cable from the engine to the(existing) car battery earth terminal and try again?
Slow cranking is usually either failing starter, poor battery or failing connections(corroded cables connections etc) you can gauge the effort required to turn the engine by removing the spark plugs and turning by hand, shouldn't be that hard with a long spanner on the crank pulley

 

[jrkitching]

Sounds to me like you may have an internal short in the battery.

Modern batteries often fail this way, particularly if left for any length of time with the battery discharged.

Replace the battery with a known good one and try again.

The other possibility is either a bad earth connection, or (less likely) a bad connection in the starter feed circuit.

Actual starter motor failure would be a long way down my list of potential suspects.

 

[typecastboy]

Did you also clean the main earth strap from the battery to the near side chassis leg?

 

[rodmex]

Thanks for the advice!

Yesterday, I got a chance to putter with it some more. Firstly, I pulled the battery (it's around 6 months old) and took it to the store for a load test. It turns out that its fine, supplying slightly more CCA than its rating, even. I was really hoping it was a failed battery.

After that, I dove in and pulled the plugs. Man, they're DEEP! I cranked it with the plugs out and it turned at the same slow rate as it does even with compression, so I squirted some WD40 in the cylinders and put it back together.

So the battery is ok and it appears there isn't any undue high compression. I'll pursue now jumping the ground connections.

Thanks again for the advice. Any other ideas?

 

[rodmex]

Ok, just jumped the ground and had some results - slow cranking. Guess I should try jumping the positive but I'm gonna need some help for that!

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi.

Its a multiair.

So uses oil pressure to control the injection.
It flagging an oil issue could well be related..

Is it an auto gearbox?

Ideally you want to scan it for fault codes..

There is a specific code seen for oil related starting issues.

Charlie

 

[rodmex]

Thanks for the tip.

It's a manual transmission.

I just bought a code scanner so we'll see what that says soon!

 

[varesecrazy]

You have the option of towing the car.. to get cranking rpm higher

However if the oil light is stopping injection you may struggle to get it running.

I will try and find the most relevant thread..

Charlie

 

[rodmex]

Ok so I hooked u the scanner with relative ease and I see the following errors:
P0352 - 53, 54 - all ignition coil errors
P0504 - Speed Sensor
P0339 Camshaft Position Sensor

Does anyone have some insight as to what's going on? I'm guessing the ignition coil errors stem from cranking it with the coil packs disconnected, but that's just a guess.

 

[bkaveski]

Did you ever find out what was wrong with it. I have a 2012 fiat 500 73k miles and it has the same symptoms. It sat for a year and now it wont start. new spark plugs and new starter. i warranted the starter and the new one still cranks slow. It has spark and i jumped an additional ground to the engine and also a additional positive wire to the starter. I did this because the wires seemed hot after cranking. It still cranks slow with newer battery and jump pack. I can only jump it for around 30 seconds then it barely cranks. Anyone have any insight?

 

[chris3234]

Ive seen people report there is a button type device to depress inside the oil cap to bleed air out of the multiair unit while cranking if the car has been sat for a while
Perhaps this is worth a try?

 

[bkaveski]

Thanks for your reply. I will try that, also i think im going to try taking the spark plugs and fuel pump fuse out and crank it for a while to build oil pressure and then put it back and see if it will start.

 

[varesecrazy]

rodmex

 

[rodmex]

Sorry for the long delay in getting back here. Yes, the little brown turd is once again running, and the mystery has been solved.
The slow cranking even after starter and battery replacement came from the fact that the alternator was seized, providing too much drag via the serpentine belt. And though the starter was probably on borrowed time, it was that drag that almost certainly burned out the first starter. Additionally, after getting it back on the road, I had another no-start condition that my garage found to be the wiring in the steering column that had smoked during the many attempts to start at high resistance -- that was a fairly easy fix and not terrible costly.
I eventually got the car started by towing it. Almost immediately the belt started to smoke and quickly burned off.
After tow starting, I also discovered that the left rear rotor was seized to the pads. That was another nightmare requiring much manual labor. In that process, I managed to back the rear pistons in to the point where they wouldn't extend, and my garage insisted on installing new calipers.
So a coupla thousand dollars later, I have that fun lil nubber back on the road and I'm enjoying it regularly. Lessons here: it's not an off-road vehicle and shouldn't be run through even the shallowest of lakes with any regularity. Also, drive them. They wear out sitting, though in different ways.

 

[rodmex]

Ive seen people report there is a button type device to depress inside the oil cap to bleed air out of the multiair unit while cranking if the car has been sat for a while
Perhaps this is worth a try?

Had a few go-arounds at this. There's no discernible button to push, and though I leaned on what was probably just a fastener inside the filler neck, it made no difference.
Though like many men, I'm not certain I ever found the magic button.

 

[chris3234]

Had a few go-arounds at this. There's no discernible button to push, and though I leaned on what was probably just a fastener inside the filler neck, it made no difference.
Though like many men, I'm not certain I ever found the magic button.

Ah found the link to it
Don't have this engine in my car not something ive checked myself



https://www.google.com/amp/s/21stce...-multi-air-brick-after-long-term-storage/amp/

 

[varesecrazy]

Great to hear that a tow start actually got the pressure up

Its certainly give you a challenge..
But apparently worth it..

 

[bkaveski]

Sorry for the long delay in getting back here. Yes, the little brown turd is once again running, and the mystery has been solved.
The slow cranking even after starter and battery replacement came from the fact that the alternator was seized, providing too much drag via the serpentine belt. And though the starter was probably on borrowed time, it was that drag that almost certainly burned out the first starter. Additionally, after getting it back on the road, I had another no-start condition that my garage found to be the wiring in the steering column that had smoked during the many attempts to start at high resistance -- that was a fairly easy fix and not terrible costly.
I eventually got the car started by towing it. Almost immediately the belt started to smoke and quickly burned off.
After tow starting, I also discovered that the left rear rotor was seized to the pads. That was another nightmare requiring much manual labor. In that process, I managed to back the rear pistons in to the point where they wouldn't extend, and my garage insisted on installing new calipers.
So a coupla thousand dollars later, I have that fun lil nubber back on the road and I'm enjoying it regularly. Lessons here: it's not an off-road vehicle and shouldn't be run through even the shallowest of lakes with any regularity. Also, drive them. They wear out sitting, though in different ways.

Thanks so much for the information rodmex! I cant believe I didnt think about the alternator seizing. That is what it sounds like. Im going to pull the belt off later on today and see what happens. Ill reply back what happens.

 

[bkaveski]

It was the seized alternator. I took off the belt and after cranking for 10 seconds on and off for 40 seconds it started. Thickest white smoke I have ever seen. I was glad but then sad when I read that you have to take half the car apart to replace the alternator. It was not fun and took 5 hours. Thanks for everyone's help, I really appreciate it!