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General 2012 Spec and Price Increases?
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General 2012 Spec and Price Increases?
Thanks for that - well that would seem to fit in with the content of my last post; i.e. these changes are due to come in at the end of the current quarter (Q2).
By the way, my "terrible salesman" line was a nod towards my "informative" sales patter in my previous job working in debt collection. I used to bore people so much that they just gave in and said go for it...
I think that's the key. They need to make sure that any changes done don't change the look of the car. If they perhaps improve the quality of interior plastics, change designs of seats, seat fabrics, perhaps slightly alter the bumpers and so on then the facelift would be a good one.
IMO the best thing FIAT could do to increase the desirablilty of the 2012 model range is to retain the exisiting design & use the money they'd otherwise spend on development & retooling to knock £2k off list prices. That would, to me, show they're in touch with current economic reality - we need a better value car, not a more expensive fashion accessory.
Couldn't agree more! If they need to do anything it should be to find a better supplier for their suspension parts and work on the handling of the car and try and take it up to the level of the Twingo.
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But they won't because (i) they are still selling well, so they don't need to; (ii) a price drop won't get the car feaured in the magazines; and (iii) mild facelifts don't cost £2k per car.
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A 'mild' facelift these days will cost the company a couple of hundred million quid to retool, restock parts etc. One of the main reasons manufacturers do it is that it's a good opportunity to freshen the car up whilst new tooling is being made up..
I keep hearing that they are still selling well. However every Fiat garage I visit, and I've been to a few over recent weeks, has a lot of unsold presumably stock 500s waiting for customers.
Checking the SMMT UK new car statistics for May 2011, Fiat as a whole has lost about 20% of their market share from May 2010. (Market share May 2011 - 2.06%, May 2010 - 2.67%). The numbers are similar if you consider the year to date ones. The overall market has fallen by 7.33%. I suspect a lot of the change is due to the ending of the scrappage scheme in which Fiat did very well probably because of the Panda and 500.
Where are you hearing that 500s are still selling well? Dealers?
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£200,000,000 to retool new bumpers and lights etc for a mild facelift? Are you sure? Seems rather a lot?
I only base it on the fact that there are not huge discounts out there. The proof of the pudding being in the eating as they say.
FIAT's current pcp offers are a discount in all but name. I'm guessing here but I'd expect it's costing FIAT at least £1000 in finance subsidies on every new car sold under that scheme.
FIAT (the manufacturer, not the dealers) are clearly prepared to receive significantly less than list in order to support sales - in my book, that's saying the current list price is more than the market thinks it's worth.
The base model Panda is locked in a price war just now with the Pug 107 so there are some exceptional deals to be had - discounts for cash purchasers are almost 25% of list. It will only need one serious competitior to the 500 to emerge and values will plummet.
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How much do you think it costs to tool the production of a car?
I cite the Mondeo as an example, that cost £4 billion to design/tool/productionise.
It's not just a case of moulding some new bumpers and bolting them on, you have to re type approve the car, do new crash tests, climate testing to ensure that airflow doesn't affect cooling etc.
[edit] I found some quotes from an MG Rover development engineer:
"The Rover 75 cost £1billion to develop and get on the road so it's not a cheap business by any stretch of the imagination.
People don't understand the cost of getting cars on the road as they only see the final product. Facelifts can cost little or lots depending on what changes. A new bumper coould cost you £1million just for the tooling where as a body stamp for a press could cost upwards of £2million for a bonnet say. An aolloy wheel tool could cost you half a million and the wiper arms, just the arms could see the thick end of £300,000.
To introduce the plastic film dash for the Rover 75 from real wood cost us £2million just for the fascia trim so start thinking about other things and the costs start to mount up.
RDX60 body as I've said before was going to cost around the £350 mil before colouring in and decorating.
It's not a cheap business this car business. "
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I don't know. That was rather the reason why I asked you the question. Call me old fashioned but I tend not to ask questions the answers to which I already know.
Robin, ...... You're old fashioned.
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I would be a regular visitor of the US 500 web site (more so with a recent FF looking for some input on which model to buy
) and came across a another youtube (I wouldn't post it - I will be getting a bill from the FF for a new Oracle database ) but the changes on the new 500 are so extensive - it's an 'all new car'.You can do a search for youtube US & European Fiat 500 differences done by Chief Engineer
The guy giving the 'run down' a Fabio Dimuro - it's hard going and you might have to take some tea breaks
but at 5:48 it goes into the suspension - and for the likes of some recent Chinese enquiries about Abarthing the suspension you would question the logic. The 1.4 Multi-Air engines does look good sitting up the bench and the model cut-away gives you a sneek preview of what's under the skin.
Thanks, yet again a good find
Looks like the US 500 is more advanced, some nice touches inside and out.
btw: is multiair same is twinair ?
Looks like the US 500 is more advanced, some nice touches inside and out.
btw: is multiair same is twinair ?
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The multiair is a method of controlling the air intake into the engine by using electronic solenoids as well as normal camshafts and has been adapted to be used on other engines. The Twinair uses the multiair technology, but the engine is a new two cylinder configuration.
...and according to another dealer you have to get your order in tomorrow to pay the current prices. Yet another dealer suggested the deadline was Monday this week although it should be possible to modify an existing car to your spec provided it's already on the 'system'... Must confess to being confused myself!
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When I collected my car from the dealer the other day after the recall work.... he also said prices were going up on the 1st July. He also said the 105bhp TA was due the end of the year. But in the Panda first off.
