Technical 2012 500 apparent "seized engine" while at dealership

[sirfairy]

hello, and thank you ahead of time for any ideas, advice or questions!

i have a fiat 500 with ~50k miles where the engine would rotate, but just not turn over. i have done regular oil changes, replaced the battery, spark plugs, starter, ground strap...all with the same results. it would try to start, but after a few tries, it just lost more and more power. after checking all the fuses and fuse connections for any ground issues that i could find, and getting nowhere, i threw in the towel.
i had the car towed to a Fiat dealership for diagnosis. before working on the car, they told me i had a clutch part recall that i wasn't aware of. i told them the car had been sitting for a few months, as i have another vehicle that i drive mostly, and that i was in no rush to get it back. well, a couple weeks go by and i hear nothing from them. i called, and they told me that the engine is seized - that the mechanic tried to turn the crankshaft, and couldn't.
so, my questions are: does this sound fishy to anyone? do i have bad luck? should i leave it at the car lot before towing it home in case i need to contact a lawyer?
thanks again, in advance for any and all replies!

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi and welcome

Seized.. unlikely if you drove it there and it contained oil


There are other scenarios for being unable to rotate the crank

Hydraulic lock..
clutch..or other mechanical part failing

Did they just remove the gearbox to investigate clutch..?

Background:

Your engine is a Multiair.
It uses oil pressure to power the fuel injection apparatus.. regular use sees this pressure 'topped.up'

Inactivity .. could.. see the pressure drop

Sound familiar.. enging cranks fine.. but no fuel is injected

However.. if you know the motor is cranking..
That still doesnt stack up with.. the Dealerships bad news

But if the 'Dealer' is sticking with the 'Its seized' story.. then yes legal advice is probably advised.

Charlie

 

[sirfairy]

hey, charlie! thanks for the reply and warm welcome.

i didn't drive the car there. i had it towed because it wouldn't start. it most definitely had oil in it, though. (sorry if you meant that i brought it there with oil in it)

here is the recall i believed that they performed:

Recall Number
16V302000
Recall Date
05/16/2016
Component
POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Summary
Chrysler (FCA US LLC) is recalling certain model year 2012-2016 Fiat 500 vehicles manufactured June 21, 2010, through January 12, 2016, equipped with a manual transmission. The clutch diaphragm spring may fracture and fail, causing an inability to switch gears.

Consequence
If the clutch diaphragm spring fails, the driver may not be able to shift gears or the vehicle may lose motive power, increasing the risk of a crash.

What Owners Should Do
The remedy for this recall will include the installation of a clutch pedal limiter and a clutch pedal switch. The recall began on November 10, 2016. Owners may contact Chrysler customer service at 1-800-853-1403. Chrysler's number for this recall is S34.


have you any idea if a faulty installation of this recall is something that could cause the engine to seize?



thanks again for the reply!

 

[chris3234]

Did they replace the clutch?

If so they have installed it wrong I'd it "sized " right after installing it

 

[sirfairy]

not that i know of. i'll have to call them on monday to find out what's going on.

 

[John202020]

Did you note the mileage before you took it in?
It ran fine prior to parking for some time?
Then it would crank but not start?
Are you saying whilst starting it would get slower and slower until it wouldn't turn over even with a new battery and starter etc?
Have the car brought home and take a look, just about only oil starvation can seize a engine I thought.

 

[sirfairy]

unfortunately, i did not write the mileage down.
and yes, prior to parking it ran perfectly fine. i previously had it sit for an extended period of time, but i would eventually be able to start and run great after a few tries.
yes, while trying to start with each ignition turn the starter would spin the motor, but get weaker with each try.
i'm just unsure if i should tow it from the dealer before i contact an attorney - if i need to - in case there's something that they messed up when working on it (intentional, or unintentional).

 

[sirfairy]

just as an update for anyone going through the same situation or thinking of buying from fiat: at regional, then corporate level, they refused to do anything for me. the car is maybe 5k miles over the warranty. and was deemed "engine seized" after a recall that they performed. a lawyer told me that i would need proof from a mechanic that the dealership did something wrong. who do i call in the midwest of america that specializes in fiat repair other than a fiat dealership? anyone?

 

[varesecrazy]

Do you have Italian specialist places ..

Alfa Romeo use these motors..

Unsure if Chrysler do in the US market

The 'multiair' has been for sale for @10 years.. so may have been used in the US variants of the FCA brand.

Good luck

And do keep us informed
EDIT :
A little web research..

Says the FCA use multiair in the Dodge Dart and a lot of the smaller Jeep models ..and the same platform FIAT 500x

Tigershark motor too.. but thats a bigger 2.4

Stick with the 1.4 technology

Charlie

 

[jrkitching]

just as an update for anyone going through the same situation or thinking of buying from fiat: at regional, then corporate level, they refused to do anything for me.

Thanks for coming back with the update. I'm sorry this hasn't worked out for you.

I'm not familiar with the US legal system, but I'd have thought the burden of proof required that the dealership did something wrong would be too great for it to be worth pursuing further. Sometimes you just have to shrug your shoulders, cut your losses and move on - sadly, this may be one of those times.

It's not easy to seize an otherwise sound engine. I'm curious as to how exactly it came to be 'siezed'. I'm wondering if this is the result of a broken cambelt; if they carried out some sort of procedure during the update that called for the engine to be run at high rpm, then it's certainly a possibility. That said, I really can't understand why installing a clutch pedal limiter and switch would require anything of this sort.

My guess is that the mechanic took it round the block to check it out, drove it a little too enthusiastically and it just happened to choose that moment to let go. Very, very hard to prove wrongdoing in that sort of case.

 

[Rocco Reviews]

It could be that oil leaked out of the MultiAir system. Here's a tip, if you still have the car (old post, I know). Take the oil cap off, there's a small hole to purge the air in the system, use a screwdriver, and push it down. And have some else crank it over. Try it a few times, and it might just fire back up. The MultiAir system relies on oil pressure to work. It's a hydraulic system. So it uses the engine oil to hydraulically actuate the valves (no vvt).