Technical 2011 Fiat Panda Active 1.2 Misfiring + fuel management light on + white smoke under air intake

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Technical 2011 Fiat Panda Active 1.2 Misfiring + fuel management light on + white smoke under air intake

Khaito

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Hi folks,

I bought a 2011 Fiat Panda Active 1.2 earlier this month, the previous owner died a couple of years ago so the car had been sitting unused since at least Feb 2021 (MOTs show a change in the mileage of about 20 miles between the fail in Feb 2021 and it passing in July 2022). Tank was empty so I put in a half tank of unleaded and drove it the 60 miles home.
Aside from the low brake fluid light coming on, which I'm assuming will be from worn pads as the brake fluid is full, the car ran great. I did another 2 or 3 small trips of about 16-20 miles each total and on the last trip, the fuel management light came on and it started misfiring whilst driving about 10 minutes after leaving home. The only thing I did differently that day was open the bonnet and let the water out of the rubber traps under the windscreen as there was lots of condensation in the car on the drive home after buying it and I had noticed the carpet in the front foot wells was damp.
The misfire is constant, rougher at idle/low speeds than when driving at 30+ mph. I bought an OBD2 bluetooth scanner from ebay but turned out to be useless so returned that and bought one from Euro Car Parts. I plugged in the EuroCarParts one and was attempting to get codes out of it using the Car Scanner app on iOS, initially just with the ignition on then I started the engine for about five minutes before I noticed white smoke now coming out from under the bonnet (new symptom!) so I stopped the car and took a look. Seems to be coming from under the air intake. I sent a video of this to a mate who used to work in a garage and he's wondering if it could be a shorted wire under the air intake so going to take it off today to take a look.

But questions I have are:
Has anyone used the following OBD2 scanner on this type of panda and if so, what app did you use with it? I found Car Scanner to be unintuitive and difficult to locate how to get the current error codes. The smoke starts as soon as I turn on the ignition so I'm wary of trying again with the scanner when I don't know if I'm potentially going to cause more damage.
I've attached a screenshot of the smoke from the video I took, anyone got any suggestions of what to look for? I've got some basic tools but I don't have items such as a torque wrench or locking tool for the timing belt if I end up needing to replace the head gasket. I've also not got anyone I can ask for help and I'm low on funds so would ideally like to try to resolve this myself to save cash.
Potential culprits I'm guessing it could be: head gasket, blocked fuel injector, spark plugs/cables/coils, wire burnt out, could the exhaust/cat/lambda sensors cause misfire issues?

 
Seems the smoke was actually helpful. Took the air filter cover off the engine and could clearly see it’s the ignition coil that’s smoking, also discovered the air filter was disgusting and looks like a breather pipe is choked judging by the oil splatter I’m seeing in the hoses.

To remove the coil safely I just need to disconnect the battery first, aye?
 
The coils are on the end of the engine between battery and cylinder head. Smoke from there would be obviously from the coils.

The last time I saw "smoke" as described, the head gasket had blown. You need a compression test and/or a coolant chemical test for hydrocarbons.
 
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The Bluetooth on an iPhone isn’t standard and requires a special dongle. Android phones work with anything

Torque works on an iPhone with the correct dongle

Been here myself. My dongle will not work with my iPhone but is fine with an android phone
 
The Bluetooth on an iPhone isn’t standard and requires a special dongle. Android phones work with anything

Torque works on an iPhone with the correct dongle

Been here myself. My dongle will not work with my iPhone but is fine with an android phone

I tried the cheap ebay one with an Android phone as well and no dice, some apps would connect to it but not the ECU, some wouldn't connect to it at all. Tried Torque light but didnt see the point in paying for Torque pro with a dongle I couldn't confirm even worked.
The second one I got from Euro car parts uses wifi and the iOS Car Scanner app connected to the dongle and then to the ECU, the UI was just very clunky but going to try other apps.

The coils are on the end of the engine between battery and cylinder head. Smoke from there would be obviously from the coils.

The last time I saw "smoke" as described, the head gasket had blown. You need a compression test and/or a coolant chemical test for hydrocarbons.

Hmm, it's the plug the arrow is pointing to here that's smoking and I can see it's charred on the underside.

 
The coils are on the end of the engine between battery and cylinder head. Smoke from there would be obviously from the coils.

The last time I saw "smoke" as described, the head gasket had blown. You need a compression test and/or a coolant chemical test for hydrocarbons.
Not on the last 2011 69HP ones. Its a single coil pack bolted under the airbox. If the car is switched off the wires just unclip. I didnt disconnect the battery when doing ours. A smoking coil pack would concern me I should have a very careful look at the wiring to ensure there is no evidence of any short circuit having taken place. You dont want to put a new coil on and ruin it straight away.
 
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We have a 2011 car which ran OK but was throwing misfire codes when we bought it. A new coil pack was fitted but I think the cause of rough running was oil contamination of the MAF sensor which is fitted in the inlet manifold. Cleaning out the sludge from the mainifild finally banished all the errors and the odd behaviour that always started when the car showed 80mph (probably about 72) The dealer recommended changing the fire trap which is a wire mesh filter in the main crankcase breather hose. I did this as well just to eliminate it from enquiries, Im fairly sure it could have been cleaned with some carb cleaner spray.
 
We have a 2011 car which ran OK but was throwing misfire codes when we bought it. A new coil pack was fitted but I think the cause of rough running was oil contamination of the MAF sensor which is fitted in the inlet manifold. Cleaning out the sludge from the mainifild finally banished all the errors and the odd behaviour that always started when the car showed 80mph (probably about 72) The dealer recommended changing the fire trap which is a wire mesh filter in the main crankcase breather hose. I did this as well just to eliminate it from enquiries, Im fairly sure it could have been cleaned with some carb cleaner spray.
Ahhh, that sounds a lot like my one. When I was driving it home after buying it I noticed hesitations/juddering when accelerating at higher speeds which sounds similar to what you described. Also noticed today that the air filter was pretty filthy and the hoses connecting to the air intake had oil on them and a valve which I'm assuming is the MAF was covered in sludge, photo for fun:

I've wiped it clean as best I could and tried to leave no debris that could get sucked into the engine but was considering buying some carb cleaner to sort it out. :unsure: I'm not sure where the crankcase breather hose is to check for a trap/catch can though.


Not on the last 2011 69HP ones. Its a single coil pack bolted under the airbox. If the car is switched off the wires just unclip. I didnt disconnect the battery when doing ours. A smoking coil pack would concern me I should have a very careful look at the wiring to ensure there is no evidence of any short circuit having taken place. You dont want to put a new coil on and ruin it straight away.

Yeah, I'm planning to replace the whole coil pack + the leads. I got help from a good auto electrician who's not far away about a year ago so thinking I might ask them to check it for peace of mind.
 
OMG!!!! That is the throttle body and it really doesnt want to look like that! You can remove it to make cleaning easier and it alone will improve your running substantially! Carburettor cleaner spray will remove all that back muck with ease. The four star bolts come out easy enough and there are a couple of wires also to un clip. Once removed you can see inside the inlet manifold . I'll bet a £ to a penny its full of crud, The MAF fits into the manifil fron underneath at its far end. U used a clean cotton rag witha bit of carb cleaner sprayed on as the final clean, but had to wipe out a lot of sudge first.. If you remove the throttle body take not its easy to drop the bolts down the back of then engine. One of mine went down and was never seen again in spit if using magnetic tools , a usb camers, and hours, and I mean hours of searching. The bolts are NOT very tight and should only be just nipped up with your finger pressure something like 4Nm if I remembe rightly. The throttle body has an inbuilt gasket. Take great care not to damage it as they are expensive. I used a small amount of automotive silicon sealer on mine before refitting. I would clean this part first, clean the manifld second, send celan rag on a wire rod into the manifold to wipe the MAF before refitting the throttle body. You cant actually really see the MAF so I just wiped until the rage fed in, came out clean. I would also replace the breather hose / fire trap as its about £15 if I remember and it gets you a clean srart. If that doesnt sort you then get a new MAF but It will be very fiddly I suspect to fit. I think it just clips into the maifold from underneath and has a wire connector that plugs in to it.

If you search catch cans on here you can see I fitted one to collect the sludge that comes out of the breather pipes. It was only again about £15 but needed a bit of fiddling to get the hoses all joined up. SInce doing this I have had to empty the can every week to get rid of sludge but teh car has run fine. I have also since cleaned teh throttle body again but jsut with a carb cleaner spray (engine Off and some clean cotton cloth. The car performs so much better since doing this I could barely believe how good it felt after.

One final aside. The 69HP 169 and 319 seem to go much better and use less fuel if you avoid E10 fuel! You may like to experiemnt yourself.
 
Wi-Fi obd should be fine with an iPhone. Just a matter of playing around until you fine something you like

A fair few will not clear codes unless you pay. But there are a few true free ones.

Nothing looks wright in your photos

The rusty VVT solenoid normally look like new with 100k miles on them

There shouldn’t be oil

There shouldn’t be arcing

The butterfly valve in the throttle body shouldn’t be gummed up like that


The arcing is probably due to all the muck under there


I would start by cleaning the coil pack up

Clean the HT leads

Inspect where the HT plug into the coil pack

Inspect and post a photo of the plugs

I will imbed your photos here for the people who miss clicking on the links

CEF680F1-3C1A-41E7-8C95-88B91B1305C3.png
9D9825A9-2561-4FE5-9154-45CBA07CB706.jpeg
 
Hi folks,

died a couple of years ago so the car had been sitting unused
open the bonnet and let the water out of the rubber traps under the windscreen as there was lots of condensation in the car on the drive home after buying it and I had noticed the carpet in the front foot wells was damp.


When you brake its like to throw water over the coil pack which is right in front
The misfire is constant, rougher at idle/low speeds than when driving at 30+ mph.
Don’t like the sound of this. Low rev misfire is normally associated with low compression
 
Water in the footwells is most likely blocked water drains in the air intake. Look down from the top (below windscreen) and you should be able to see two split rubber bungs (aka "duckbills"). If the area is full of sludge water builds up and gets in through the heater air intake.
 
Not on the last 2011 69HP ones. Its a single coil pack bolted under the airbox. If the car is switched off the wires just unclip. I didnt disconnect the battery when doing ours. A smoking coil pack would concern me I should have a very careful look at the wiring to ensure there is no evidence of any short circuit having taken place. You dont want to put a new coil on and ruin it straight away.
Oops, I spotted my error too late to edit. But failed ignition coils never make smoke. The symptoms given point strongly at a blown cylinder head gasket. Cheap tools will prove it one way or the other.
 
Oops, I spotted my error too late to edit. But failed ignition coils never make smoke. The symptoms given point strongly at a blown cylinder head gasket. Cheap tools will prove it one way or the other.
Wel Ive never seen smoke from a coil either. Looking at the state of the throttle body it looks like a case of excess crankcase pressure and one can only hope it was not wiring frying. I am always amazed people pay for an expensive assest and let it become worthless by not maintaining the thing. Theres a balance for those not afflicted by OCD(Panda) but you see it so often. Best to stay on top of things so its hopefully just one issue at a time, I have to say that I tend to agree with your diagnosis. Hopefully not the end of the world. I think we have a head gasket issue developing but dont want to get into the freewheeling cam pulley issues of doing DIY so its going to be a bit costly.
 
Let’s not jump as to what could be

The car has had a lack of maintenance by the look and sounds of it

Low brake fluid
Blocked duck bills

Plus stood for awhile

Let’s get the faults we can see fixed up

The HT leads and coil pack are in a disgusting state

On the eco engines the coil pack is earthed through the cam cover which is also in a state

I have a feeling it probably on it original plugs which when the gap has eroded too big will cause the HT to find other routes

With the car not running for over a year and blocked duck bills I would have thought the most likely cause of the white smoke is steam from water pooling

Yes coil packs do smoke. It’s fairly common especially on the over plug type. But it’s unlikely here as they stink. Google melted coil pack and you will see many examples

I would be over concerned about the throttle body. Although I would take the 4 bolts out and look underneath for a pool of mayonnaise due to it stand for such a long time

Post a picture of the plugs in order would be helpful

Oil
Coolant levels need to be check asap
 
Let’s not jump as to what could be

The car has had a lack of maintenance by the look and sounds of it


Oil
Coolant levels need to be check asap
I was just about to suggest checking coolant level too, especially with these engine's known intolerance of low coolant levels? I'd do a compression check too. It's easy and quick to do and lets you at least know that, if it comes up good, then you can concentrate on stuff like sparks and fueling.

Burning electricals smells very different to steam, what does this white smoke smell most like? One possibility that strikes me is that the heater hose comes off the head somewhere in that region? However an engine which has been neglected like this one would seem to have been needs all the stuff like plugs and filters sorted out first. I agree also to pull the MAP sensor (these engines don't have a MAF) and clean it. Mine was contaminated with oil and cleaning it made a noticeable difference - although I'd be surprised if this were to be your primary problem.
 
Hi :)

My throttle body isnt much better at 50k

Probably a symptom of 'short runs'
I bet the oil filler cap is full of Mayo too..

Ive had a LOT of FIRE experience..

You will learn a Lot from the plugs :cool:
mine stays clean even on short runs

With the throttle close to closed the gasses should be drawn in by vacuum below the throttle body.

However doesn’t help the OP. Even without the airbox or any of the emission pipes connect the 69hp runs fine

I’m with you. It wouldn’t be my first concern.
 
With a vehicle stood for some time, there is always the possibility of rodent damage. All wiring and hosees need to be checked for any chewing, as such damage could lead to smoke from shorting wires or coolant escaping.
Smoke from a coil, and a misfire do go together. As long as coolant level is ok, a new coil pack might fix this, but the plugs do need checking too, as large gaps put a strain on coils.

OP, be more specific as to your location. There might be someone close enough to offer hands-on help.
 
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