General 2011 1.2 Panda 60k. Should I replace engine belt?

[DaveMcT]

The 1.2 models with narrow tyres achieved the CO2 target and the £30 tax applies for the life of the car. Heavier models with wider tyres (eg Eleganza) failed to meet he target so tax rate is higher. 100HP has the widest tyres possible, has an engine less efficient at test speeds so its tax rate is even higher.

 

[koalar]

My wife has a 2007 1.2 Dynamic. Road tax is £30.

The 1.2 models with narrow tyres achieved the CO2 target and the £30 tax applies for the life of the car. Heavier models with wider tyres (eg Eleganza) failed to meet he target so tax rate is higher. 100HP has the widest tyres possible, has an engine less efficient at test speeds so its tax rate is even higher.

I don’t see any pre 2009 at £30 regardless of tyre size

My 05 and 06 were both on 155s both on higher road tax. And that’s the only reason I am still not driving them

 

[DaveMcT]

Sorry - hand held up. I must have been thinking of monthly costs. Who knows I don't pay the bill (mine is much higher). It's marked as 133g/km so rate is £140 per year.

 

[TagSouth]

The Active and Dynamic Eco models were specifically brought in to make use of the new tax bands. The brochure I have from 2009 gives the CO2 as 119g for the Dynamic Eco, and 133g for the Eleganza.
The Dynamic Eco (and Active Eco) came with 155/80R13 wheels, while the Eleganza has 165/65R14.

 

[DaveMcT]

The 2007 Dynamic (1.2 - 60 bhp) has 155/80R13 wheels and roof bars. Emissions are 133g/km.

 

[Yolanda]

Hello & welcome to the forum.

Your Panda being a 2011 car will have an interference engine as it has variable valve timing which the 1.2 8v FIRE engine has had since the introduction of the new Fiat 500 in 2007 so I would look into having the belt & water pump changed, although a family friend has a mk3 131 1600cl which he has owned since about 3 years old & is still on its original cambelt at 90k. Shop4Parts I find are the best suppliers for my Panda & my dad's Punto. The FIRE engine is in my opinion one of the best engines ever produced although they differ slightly from the original 1985 design they are still cheap to maintain, reliable & can be quite nippy, I much prefer the FIRE with the 8v head rather than the 16v Super FIRE as I had a Bravo 1.2 16v & found it rather gutless compared to the 8v & also quite bad on fuel. Although these engines are very tough & durable there are a few things to look out for.
1) rotten sumps as they are not the best metal in the world, plenty of aftermarket choices for these engines & quite cheap
2) on the 8v the thermostat housing where the coolant hose connects to the housing the pipe adapter is plastic, (the 1.4 16v is metal) & over time goes brittle & eventually snaps off dumping coolant everywhere leading to potential head gasket issues if your not quick to turn the engine off, early warning signs to change the thermostat will be a red powdery residue where the hose joins the housing. Quite cheap if you change it after seeing the warning sign
3) the breather hose that runs round the back of the air filter housing can break again quite cheap.
4) Rear beams on Panda's & 500's do tend to corrode but replacements are dirt cheap & most come with new bushes installed
5) They have a bit of a reputation for head gasket issues although I've never had issues with them I think it all depends how well they have been maintained.

I think thats about it, the Panda will serve you very well if you look after it even with the common issues above all of which are minor & relatively inexpensive should be fine for many years , I have a newer 319 Panda which under the body is exactly the same car, I bought new 4 years ago & have never had any issues with it, the only thing was being Euro 6 the low end torque wasn't very great at first but has freed up now & is much better. My Panda has never been into a garage for repairs or servicing even when in warranty period, I brought the genuine parts & me & my dad serviced the car on the drive, even tyre changes get done at home. Only time it goes in is for MOT which it passes with flying colours as I always check it over just before & do a lot of preventative maintenance which helps.

I've been told by a mechanic friend of mine, that when this engine was produced / assembled it was done solely by robotics eg no human hand touched it. I don't know how true this is, maybe someone on here can verify that.

 

[koalar]

No ours but the more modern turbo version

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I'm pretty sure the FIRE stands for "Fully Integrated Robotisized Engine", or something close to that, and was the first engine built entirely by robots without human intervention?

Yup, there you go, some video if the old FIRE engine which was fitted in my old Felicity (1992 Panda Parade).



From about half way there's some video of the automated robots making the engines. Those of you familiar with them will remember these early engines had distributors and points type ignition, an oil spray bar for the cam and much simpler coolant pipe - the one that runs along the front of the engine behind the exhaust manifold. - If you like a challenge? see what else you can spot that's different to the more modern engines.

 

[rmjbn1]

It's marked as 133g/km so rate is £140 per year.

My 2004 1.2 Dynamic was £140 per year when I got it in 2018, but it's been going up by £5 each year since.
And I suspect this will continue to rise. DVLA suggests it'll be £165 this year: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-cars-registered-on-or-after-1-march-2001. Will have to wait and see. ECO models are looking more attractive...

 

[koalar]

That’s what pushed me over the edge

Old car need £50+ repair for an MOT plus £40 for an MOT plus £135 for tax

By not even putting it in I saved £275 including its scrap value

Which went towards the £300 for a eco with an MOT but damaged gearbox. Even had 3/4 tank of petrol.

Need an extra £30 tax and £100ish in fixing up

Just passed another MOT so technically it is now free when comparing road tax to keeping the old car running

 

[The Panda Nut]

The post 2009 cars are £30 except for the 100 HP and for some strange reason & I really don't get why the 1.2 Elegenza is a lot higher road tax than the 1.2 Active Eco & Dynamic Eco, even post 2009 because it supposedly has 14 more grams of co2 than the eco even though its the exact same 1242cc lump with some fancy wheels & roof bars. The government do make up some silly rules sometimes, it's the same with the April 2017 tax change 1.2 Panda's & 500's registered before that date were £30 per year tax & my Panda being a 2018 car I've just paid £165 for a years tax even though its still the same 119g of co2 as the earlier cars

That'll be the air con then.

 

[koalar]

That'll be the air con then.

It’s not the air con
Mine has it and £30
No idea why though

 

[The Panda Nut]

It’s not the air con
Mine has it and £30
No idea why though

There were some differences also -beggars belief how these things were calculated- that relate to tyre size and weight that affected the tax con.... sorry band. But a big heavy VW with a 2 litre engine is better so some are £20. We should sue the EU for its complicity in this intercontinetal con! Its as sad as the insurance thing where different wheels and air con move a car into the next band or worse.

 

[jrkitching]

That'll be the air con then.

No, the aircon is turned off when the emissions are tested. It's the alloy wheels which push the Eleganza into the higher band.

With the 60HP Euro4 engine, the Panda can't make the 119g/km cut without those 155/80 steelies, which is why the 60 HP dynamic eco doesn't have alloys as standard. The 69HP Euro5 has slightly better emissions in testing, just enough that Fiat were able to put alloys as standard on some of the last of the 1.2 Panda 169's and still make the cut.

There's a similar situation with the Mk1 Ka; the emissions (and hence tax band) vary by model according to which wheels were standard - those with alloys are in a higher band.

But you can specify alloys as an option (or retrofit them) without affecting the tax band! That's determined by what was standard on the specific model in question when it was homologated.

Same thing happened with the engine oil spec; Fiat went from 10W40 to 5W40 to get the 1.1/1.2 Pandas into the £30 band. But if you decide in later life to use a 10W40, you'll still only pay £30. AFAIK there's absolutely no mechanical difference between any of the 60HP engines and they can be run perfectly safely on either oil.

 

[DaveMcT]

At 70,000 miles, my air-cooled bike engine had zero wear on cams and bearings yet it revved to 9000 and was normally run at around 4,500rpm. The engine and gearbox were both lubricated by the same 10w40 semi synth. The oil had a hard job. Based on that, I think the Panda 1.2 is more than well served by the same stuff. Just keep to the correct oil change intervals.

 

[pcb]

I have a Panda 1.2 active registered 21-10-2011. The vin begins ZFA169, It also states in log book Max net power (kW) 51 so I presume this is a late 60 bhp
non interference engine or am I getting it wrong ? CO2 g/km 113.

 

[koalar]

I have a Panda 1.2 active registered 21-10-2011. The vin begins ZFA169, It also states in log book Max net power (kW) 51 so I presume this is a late 60 bhp
non interference engine or am I getting it wrong ? CO2 g/km 113.

69hp properly vvt
Definitely interference

8V SMPI 60 PS (44 kW) (1993 - 2009)

8V SMPI VVT 69 PS (51 kW) (2007 - 2020)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

My 1.2 is a 2010 reg and has the 60hp engine, but it must be one of the last. by 2011 I thought they were 69hp? There are several quite easy ways to check whether you have the 69hp engine because it used a VVT front pulley on the cam and if it has the VVT pulley then it must have the controlling solenoid on the cam cover which is easily seen from the top of the engine. To check for this simply open the bonnet and, standing in front of the car, look down on the top of the engine. Look for the oil filler cap and then look just to the right and behind it, at about 2 o'clock, and you'll see a small bulge in the casting. Follow this bulge backwards and you'll find either a blanking plug, or the electrical solenoid with it's associated wires, screwed into it. Look at the picture below. The little yellow stubby screwdriver is pointing to the blanking plug in mine (because it's a 60hp) - you can just see the edge of the threads - but if your's is a 69hp that's where the solenoid will be screwed in.

To the left of the cap - at about 11 o'clock - you can see the cam sensor - black plastic component with a wee yellow locking slider and single retaining hex headed bolt - Not all these engines have it here, later ones I believe tend to be at the other end of the cam - gearbox end of the engine and very early versions had no cam sensor at all.

Sorry about the water pump pliers, I was having trouble shifting the oil filler cap!