I purchased my panda about 5 years ago and the dealer had fitted a new timing belt. After this length of time I decided it probably needed doing again so I purchased a kit and put it on the shelf pending a suitable time to do the job. As my ex wife used to say 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' and I didn't get round to the job for 5 months. I started striping the covers off and realised the kit I had was the wrong one, after a little research I ordered the correct kit and a set of engine locking tools for this engine. The job was going fine until I tried to fit the crank lock (having first locked the camshaft), it was about 12cms out and would only fit when the belt was moved around 1 tooth. It had also been obvious when removing the cam cover that this had never been off since it left the factory. My only conclusion was the dealers mechanic had taken a few shortcuts and fitted the belt 'by eye' and got it slightly wrong. With the car back together it's running fine and I've just done a regular 300 mile trip and achieved a fuel consumption of 58mpg, the best I've managed in the past was 50mpg. How much would a 15% saving on 5 years worth of fuel have been? I suppose the moral of the story is to use a trusted mechanic or do the job yourself and always use the engine locking kit, I bought mine on ebay for about £20.
Technical 2009 Panda 1.1 timing belt change.
- Thread starter Woodbeck
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Technical 2009 Panda 1.1 timing belt change.
pretty sure your doing something wrong
if its a VVT it couldn't be 1 tooth out and not have the engine check light on
can I first confirm yours is actually a VVT i believe 2009 was the first year
if its a VVT it couldn't be 1 tooth out and not have the engine check light on
can I first confirm yours is actually a VVT i believe 2009 was the first year
The engine is not a VVT it has a solid cam gear but the later style camshaft and crank pulley that have the locking points, it is a very early 2009 1.1 active, not an eco active.
The engine No. is 4607947 if that helps you identify it.
If you leave the spark plugs in and turn the engine over with a ratchet on the Crank pully is it hard to turn over when a cylinder approaches top dead centre
does yours have a cam sensor fitted
does yours have a cam sensor fitted
the cam locking tool fits two ways, Your not 180 degrees out ?
I don't have a problem with the car it's running better than ever. Yes it does have a cam sensor.
The slot in the camshaft is offset, if the tool is fitted incorrectly it won't bolt down properly. Even assuming it was fitted incorrectly why is the car running better?
can't have been one tooth out the engine check light would have been on permanently.
with the belt off by one tooth it will not do a phonic relearn or rev freely. I get to around 3K and bogs down, engine check light on, out of phase
its almost impossible to fit the belt with the cam and Crank locked. I tried
I had to back it off one tooth.
I have no idea why its running better
yes it will fit and bolt two way 180 degrees apart
the correct one is with the square cut out at the top
I assumed its similar to mine ?
Thanks for all your comments, I've enjoyed this little exchange. I don't know you or what your experience is so I can't really comment on your posts other than to explain my position, I do however note you are an established contributor to the forum and I therefore respect your comments. For my part I'm now retired but have spent most of my working life in the auto industry. The panda is not an everyday car and was bought to tow behind my motor home but all I can say is that before the belt change it ran ok and after the belt change (one tooth different) it runs ok but the fuel consumption is much better. My conclusion was that as it is now set as per the manufacturers specification that the original belt was indeed 1 tooth out which would be quite easy to do if it was done 'by eye' as I suspect. At no time have any warning lights been on.
We had a 2004 1108cc for years..
hence the many GUIDES On here..
It was a tooth or 2 out several times.. but when it jumped 7 teeth it wouldnt start
hence the many GUIDES On here..
It was a tooth or 2 out several times.. but when it jumped 7 teeth it wouldnt start
when I did my car recently I fitted the belt off by one tooth on purpose to see what would happen
we get quite a few post about car running badly after a belt change, although yours is the other way
you can tell instantly you turn the engine over by hand,
on cars with a cam sensor it realises its out of phase and there is no way to recalibrate with software
the car starts and runs fine but does not rev freely, but as you didn't have an engine light on I dont see how this could be possible
I did learn a lot. Doing my car. With the cam and Crank locked I couldn't fit the belt, always one tooth out
its very important with a VVT to only turn the Crank clockwise
The locking tools don't quite properly line up until the belt settles a bit at least my belt and locking tools
I ended up wedging the belt on the Crank pully. turning the cam one tooth anti clockwise fitting the belt. Tightening the tensioner fully and the doing a Good few turns, reset the tension properly a god few more turns and see if the locking tools line up
yes I tried the cam locking tool both ways it fits and bolts down. Although its nicer the correct way
My car is not a vvt.
I followed the belt manufactures instruction to fully tension the belt turn the engine through 2 full rotations to fully seat the belt then back off to the correct running tension. the engine was then turned through a further 2 full turns and the locking tools refitted to confirm everything was correct.
I followed the belt manufactures instruction to fully tension the belt turn the engine through 2 full rotations to fully seat the belt then back off to the correct running tension. the engine was then turned through a further 2 full turns and the locking tools refitted to confirm everything was correct.
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Replacing timing belt on 1.1 and 1.2 with no other work done -
(1) Lock the crank with #1 piston on rising stoke.
(2) Use a cam lock tool to position the cam and paint mark the cam wheel with the cylinder head. Remove the cam lock.
(3) Fit the timing belt and tension. The cam wheel will be one tooth out.
(4) Loosen the tensioner, reposition the cam and retighten the belt. Your paint marks should now align. Repeat and correct the offset if it's worse than last time. You can confirm by fitting a cam lock which will drop into place. If the cam is not correctly timed, the lock tool will not connect.
(5) Remove crank lock and box up the job. Some people turn the engine to confirm timing marks are correct afterwards. To be fair, this is a comfort move, because a correctly tensioned timing belt cannot slip.
This method avoids repeating a timing error created when the previous belt was fitted.
(1) Lock the crank with #1 piston on rising stoke.
(2) Use a cam lock tool to position the cam and paint mark the cam wheel with the cylinder head. Remove the cam lock.
(3) Fit the timing belt and tension. The cam wheel will be one tooth out.
(4) Loosen the tensioner, reposition the cam and retighten the belt. Your paint marks should now align. Repeat and correct the offset if it's worse than last time. You can confirm by fitting a cam lock which will drop into place. If the cam is not correctly timed, the lock tool will not connect.
(5) Remove crank lock and box up the job. Some people turn the engine to confirm timing marks are correct afterwards. To be fair, this is a comfort move, because a correctly tensioned timing belt cannot slip.
This method avoids repeating a timing error created when the previous belt was fitted.
cars with a cam sensor give a P001? or P002? if one tooth out
the light can not be turned by a phonic relearning
Is this not just on vvt engines
Do YOU have a cam sensor?
My 2004 never did this..
My 2004 never did this..
Yes it has a cam sensor but it is not a vvt engine.
any with a cam sensor and crank sensor
out of phase
too advanced
too retarded error
if it didn't there would be no point in even fitting a cam sensor
not sure how far out you can be, you can be a bit out on the cam pully to cam bolt a few degrees and do a phonic relearn. You can't be one tooth out and not throw a code.
I haven't tried every combination but have tried one tooth advanced which is the normal error in fitting a belt with cam lock tools
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