Technical 2009 MultiJet engine out cam chain repair

[DaveMcT]

I am (Kingsteignton) but never thought to ask.

 

[bugsymike]

I am (Kingsteignton) but never thought to ask.

Oh! I thought you were up tut North.Paignton. PM if I have anything you need (not money)

 

[DaveMcT]

Some more pictures.

Oil pump cum cam chain cover. Black inside but really very clean.

 

[DaveMcT]

What were Fiat engine designers thinking? The cam connecting gears are huge. Not quite main gearbox size but pretty close. Then look at the cam chain sprocket it would look undersized on a bicycle. There’s no visible wear on the teeth but the chain side plates have failed. Why on earth was it not a double row chain? Or even a toothed belt?

 

[DaveMcT]

Here's how you strip and rebuild a Fiat common rail diesel injector. It's fussy but doable by a competent DIY. Only snag is obtaining replacement parts. I'll replace my No 4 then clean the tips on the set and job done. The top ends can stay untouched.

 

[bugsymike]

Here's how you strip and rebuild a Fiat common rail diesel injector. It's fussy but doable by a competent DIY. Only snag is obtaining replacement parts. I'll replace my No 4 then clean the tips on the set and job done. The top ends can stay untouched.

Excellent video, Denso is similar but not quite the same as the Bosch ones I worked on. I also understand there are later piezo activated ones different again.

 

[DaveMcT]

The head is now off. The bolts have Torx pattern heads which seemed loose for my T55 so wandered down to Halfords for a T60. That’s actually too big. So the 55 did the job and the T60 has gone back.
The cylinders still have honing marks on the bores so that’s excellent. #2 has fine witness marks from the valves but nothing to worry about. #3 had a puddle of cellulose thinners and black sludge in the piston bowl and the bore was dry. That’s now cleaned and oiled. I had used thinners to try and loosen the stuck injector.
#4 piston had a pile of dry carbon chips in the piston bowl. No surprise that injector was such a struggle. Thank goodness I wasn’t intending to run the engine with that lot in place.
The combustion chambers and valves look clean however only #1 exhausts have that grey look of clean burning.

#4 piston below.

 

[bugsymike]

The head is now off. The bolts have Torx pattern heads which seemed loose for my T55 so wandered down to Halfords for a T60. That’s actually too big. So the 55 did the job and the T60 has gone back.
The cylinders still have honing marks on the bores so that’s excellent. #2 has fine witness marks from the valves but nothing to worry about. #3 had a puddle of cellulose thinners and black sludge in the piston bowl and the bore was dry. That’s now cleaned and oiled. I had used thinners to try and loosen the stuck injector.
#4 piston had a pile of dry carbon chips in the piston bowl. No surprise that injector was such a struggle. Thank goodness I wasn’t intending to run the engine with that lot in place.
The combustion chambers and valves look clean however only #1 exhausts have that grey look of clean burning.

#4 piston below.

Are you still going to take the bottom end off?
Did you hear it running originally to know if it was quiet or not?
As a guide if not, it may be worth putting all the pistons at the same height and putting a couple of inches of engine oil down the bore and see if any drain away quicker indicating a problem. Given oil was fairly black, diesels do get a lot of blow by past pistons especially small high revving ones.
Should you decide to pull the pistons out, even though you can see the original factory honing cross hatch marks they do tend to benefit from deglazing with a light honing to allow new rings to bed in. Plus either a new or well cleaned oil strainer. Sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs .

 

[DaveMcT]

All knowledge is welcome so no worries about eggs.

The internals are back but there is absolutely no sludge. The tiny pins I found in the sump (I thought were cam chain) are from the roller cam followers. They were all clearly visible yet there's no other gunk. It looks like three are broken. A magnifying glass examination is needed to check the rest but I'll probably change the set.

I think the bottom end should come off. You are right its daft not to. I don't have a hone but have done it with emery cloth in the past, though that was plain iron cylinders. This might be a more fancy material.

I've now got two sets of valves out. The inlets are coked in soot but it cleans off easily. Exhausts are great. Just need to do the lot and then steal some cotton buds to clean the valve guides (no point until all crud is scraped out). The lumpy port castings annoy my OCD. I want to get going with a porting grinder. It's probably pointless, because valves are small and inlets are same size as exhausts. Fiat have designed the inlets to swirl the incoming air so the air flows tangental to the bore. The exhausts share a single large port.

The valve stem seals are still soft but they come with gasket sets so assembly will wait for new valve stem seals.

The gearbox is still fitted as it made standing the engine easier. Next job will be taking that off. I was going to say the new flywheel bolts will be silly money but S4P have genuine FCA at £0.68 each.

 

[bugsymike]

All knowledge is welcome so no worries about eggs.

The internals are back but there is absolutely no sludge. The tiny pins I found in the sump (I thought were cam chain) are from the roller cam followers. They were all clearly visible yet there's no other gunk. It looks like three are broken. A magnifying glass examination is needed to check the rest but I'll probably change the set.

I think the bottom end should come off. You are right its daft not to. I don't have a hone but have done it with emery cloth in the past, though that was plain iron cylinders. This might be a more fancy material.

I've now got two sets of valves out. The inlets are coked in soot but it cleans off easily. Exhausts are great. Just need to do the lot and then steal some cotton buds to clean the valve guides (no point until all crud is scraped out). The lumpy port castings annoy my OCD. I want to get going with a porting grinder. It's probably pointless, because valves are small and inlets are same size as exhausts. Fiat have designed the inlets to swirl the incoming air so the air flows tangental to the bore. The exhausts share a single large port.

The valve stem seals are still soft but they come with gasket sets so assembly will wait for new valve stem seals.

The gearbox is still fitted as it made standing the engine easier. Next job will be taking that off. I was going to say the new flywheel bolts will be silly money but S4P have genuine FCA at £0.68 each.

Not sure if it really works but I always leave hydraulic cam follower/tappets in engine oil so they are ready to pump up to self adjust quicker on first start up.
I have the spring loaded three carborundum stone honing tool that fits on a electric drill at slow speed with lots of oil for cylinder bores, also that injector seat cutter.
Don't know where you want to stop but I use a Sykes Pickavant valve and seat cutting tools prior to valve grinding also.

 

[DaveMcT]

So far the valves and seats look good. I will blue the seats and go from there. I will also lightly clean up the ports. Every little helps.

 

[DaveMcT]

Valve ports before and after cleaning. So much blah it’s unreal. The valves are tiny just 22mm and all the same size. The inlets have a dimple so are probably a different material.

 

[varesecrazy]

Youve done well

Are you sure the bolts are not RIBE rather than Torx

My panda HG work needed Ribe

 

[DaveMcT]

You are probably right, the flutes are quite square. I have a set with hex, Splines and Torx. I had forgotten about Ribe. Another trip to Halfords.

The carbon clag came off quite easily, but I'd not want any of it going through the turbo.

 

[varesecrazy]

At least you can take a bolt with you to check..

Nothing worse than trying to reach a desired torque with a poorly fitting tool..
And worrying about failure

Not the set I bought from Bergen.. but this still looks inexpensive

Bergen Tools 11pc 1/2” DR Ribe Socket Bit Set M5-M12, Polydrive, Ribe Set 1227 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Bergen Tools 11pc 1/2” DR Ribe Socket Bit Set M5-M12, Polydrive, Ribe Set 1227 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[DaveMcT]

That's cheap enough to take a punt. Thanks.

 

[DaveMcT]

I'm taking Mike's advice, so will be honing the bores and fitting new piston rings. The bores are great but will be glazed, so it makes sense.

I would go straight for Mahle, but at £95 from Lithuania they seem steep. That said, Hastings are £136.

Does anyone know if these are a OK? At around £50 seem a more sensible cost but who knows if they are any good.

Amy ideas anyone?

Piston ring set for Fiat 1.3 JTD & Multijet D 16v | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Piston ring set for Fiat 1.3 JTD & Multijet D 16v at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[varesecrazy]

Regarding the rings:

Are they identical to Vauxhall..?

Do specialists like Vauxparts..or indeed Shop4parts offer good prices ?

 

[DaveMcT]

It's entirely likely that Vauxhaul 1.3 diesel parts are the same as Fiat but there's no certainty the engines are built in the same factory. I'll be calling S4P tomorrow. But they don't list piston rings so I'm not too hopeful.

 

[DaveMcT]

I've just called Shop 4 Parts - rings are £50 (or £75 from Fiat) - per PISTON. Ouch! I'll check the ring widths and probably get those from eBay.