Technical 2009 1.1 non starter

[Scotchgitt]

Next project

Got this as a non starter
All fuses had been removed
The ring round the ignition barrel was faulty and immobiliser didnt go off
The knock sensor was faulty
Oh and the timing looked to have jumped a few teeth
Car turned over on the key with all these faults but didnt start but an occasional backfire on starting

I have a container with a pile of parts stripped from an old panda

So i started by changing the knock sensor and ignition ring
Cleared errors and retry . Immobiliser now off and no knock sensor error (yet)

Ordered head gasket plus timing belt and water pump and timing locking tool

Took head off to check for damage all good mechanically valves head and
pistons but the cylinder ring on cylinder 4 in the old gasket has been leaking into the water

Had head tested and wasnt warped so just Cleaned everything up and refitted

Then did the water pump

Then spent ages on the timing, tried old method align timing marks, check tdc for no1 piston check valves on no 1 closed.

Tried to start, nothing, also no backfires

Then used the timing lock tool , crank pulley is locked about 90deg clockwise from timing
Mark and cam pulley about 45deg clockwise

All back together ok but still no start

Checked for a spark and all good
Checked for fuel and ok, plugged a spare injector on each injector cable and ok
Voltage between -ve of battery to rocker is 0.33v when cranking put on a fresh earth cable too
Rmp in mes is around 166 when cranking

Heres a video of it cranking

 

[jackwhoo]

I think it will be some thing basic.

When piston 1 at tdc (don't look at any Marks) probe through plug hole with a stick....
Are both valves on cylinder 1 or 4 equally open?

 

[Scotchgitt]

I think it will be some thing basic.

When piston 1 at tdc (don't look at any Marks) probe through plug hole with a stick....
Are valves on cylinder 1 or 4 fully open?

When no 1 , left as i look at engine, at tdc valves on 1 are fully shut i will need to check which are fully open

 

[jackwhoo]

When no 1 , left as i look at engine, at tdc valves on 1 are fully shut i will need to check which are fully open

Please use the stick down number 1plug hole to find TDC and check both valves equally open on cyl 1 or cyl 4.....it should be either 1 or 4 doesn't matter which at moment.

If both valves on same cylinder not equally open the valve timing is not correct.

Stick probing top of piston to find TDC and looking at cam lobes is quickest way to check

 

[koalar]

We need to get to a known good

You can't tell the timing by eye

You can't tell the timing by which valves are open and shut, they stay shut 30 degrees past TDC

2009 will not have any timing marks

This engines were not timed at top dead center, but all pistons half way down the bore

You need to use both the cam and crank tools

 

[jackwhoo]

With Cylinders 1 and 4 at tdc you can judge the height of the valve buckets on the cylinder with open valves well enough to see if they are the same height or not . That is good enough to see if valve timing long way out.

 

[Scotchgitt]

When 1 (timing belt eng) at tdc valves for 1 ar both shut and lobes both towards the top of their rotation no 4 valves both are pushing on the valve followers and roughly the same height of follower showing. I would say these lobes are 180deg round from no1

I did set it using the timing tool but no instruction with it and none on line that i could find.

What i did find was a youtube showing the bottom end tool fitted which i had already done but the top tool could be fitted at 0 deg and 180 deg at 0 deg it fitted snug and tied in with the white lines marked on the belt lined up with the timing marks on both sprokets.

I did try it both ways but still not attempting to start

 

[jackwhoo]

Is that camshaft photo with piston at top checked with probe down number 1 plug hole1
?

 

[Scotchgitt]

Yeh piston 1 tdc you can see clearly into the cylinder to watch it top out. And both cams pointing up ish 10oclock and 2 oclock and valves sealed tight with a gap between the cam and the valve followers

 

[koalar]

Turn the engine clockwise, do not reverse

Out the crank tool on, turn it so you can put the bolt on

The cam locking tool should slid in, the square cutout should be upright, it is possible to fit the cam 180 degrees out

You have an Evo2 Engine

The operation was changed to have the pistons halfway down because they are now an interference engine

Changing the cambelt on these is a half hour job start to finish once you have done a few

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

 

[Scotchgitt]

Thanks i will redo it tomorrow and should the white lines on the belt line up with the timing marks on the sprocket.

Plus if its interference is that mainly only at speed as i have manually turned the engine each time ive retimed it and never felt anything lockup or hit

And yeh i can see it being a half hour job now ive done it a few times

 

[jackwhoo]

Yeh piston 1 tdc you can see clearly into the cylinder to watch it top out. And both cams pointing up ish 10oclock and 2 oclock and valves sealed tight with a gap between the cam and the valve followers

That's good .
I don't think you are far off.
Have you got the spark plug leads on the correct plugs?

Interference is not a speed related thing.

You are right to turn it over by hand to check for binding/contact.

 

[koalar]

It only minor interference

Never known any damage to occur

Probably need a bit of carbon build up and the con rods to expand a bit at high rpm needed

My 1.2 2010 Evo 2 has no timing marks, I just use the two locking tools

You can't quite fit the belt with everything locked

With everything locked up, wedge a rag in the bottom to hold the belt on the bottom pulley, pull the belt up tight as you can on the left side, and mark the two, top right of the above picture


Remove the cam locking tool

On rotate the cam clockwise one tooth.and put the belt on

Not a great photo but you can see the belt is now one tooth out, top right of the photo

Saves having to undo the big bolt in the middle

Now when you rotate the engine two turns the tools should line up

 

[Scotchgitt]

That's good .
I don't think you are far off.
Have you got the spark plug leads on the correct plugs?

Interference is not a speed related thing.

You are right to turn it over by hand to check for binding/contact.

Here is the plug diagram im using

 

[Scotchgitt]

It only minor interference

Never known any damage to occur

Probably need a bit of carbon build up and the con rods to expand a bit at high rpm needed

My 1.2 2010 Evo 2 has no timing marks, I just use the two locking tools

You can't quite fit the belt with everything locked

View attachment 446167

With everything locked up, wedge a rag in the bottom to hold the belt on the bottom pulley, pull the belt up tight as you can on the left side, and mark the two, top right of the above picture


Remove the cam locking tool

On rotate the cam clockwise one tooth.and put the belt on

View attachment 446166

Not a great photo but you can see the belt is now one tooth out, top right of the photo

Saves having to undo the big bolt in the middle

Now when you rotate the engine two turns the tools should line up

Perfect thanks i will give this a go tomorrow too

 

[Scotchgitt]

When im pulling it tight up the left is it to be like your picture or should it be round the tensioner

 

[koalar]

Whoops got my left and right mixed up

Put a rag at the bottom so the belt does not fall off the bottom pulley

Pull straight up on the right side (sorry) past the water pump

You don't need the left side on at all at this point

Mark the position of the belt and pulley

Remove the cam locking tool

Put spanner on the hex on the camshaft and turn it clockwise a tooth so the marks made earlier are now one tooth different, put locking tool back in using the spanner on the camshaft

The right side is now very tight and the belt will just about slide past the idler

 

[Scotchgitt]

Ah i see it doesnt matter cos im just wanting to move it back 1 tooth

 

[jackwhoo]

By the way the crank pulley for the accessory belt only goes on correctly in one position......the small hole by the mounting bolt holes MUST go over the small "pip" on the crank sprocket.

Plus please post a photo of your cam sprocket

 

[koalar]

Ah i see it doesnt matter cos im just wanting to move it back 1 tooth

Correct

You can not pull the right side up tight enough to fit the belt

When you try It's just under half a tooth short, annoyingly

The belt is also very tight to fit, a couple of mm extra movement on the idle would have made it a lot easier