General 2007 Doblo 1.9 multijet starting "reluctance"..

[OldGeek]

I thought I'd start this is a new thread even though I'd broached the subject on here before, because that one covered other questions as well.

To recap, I've had a 2007 1.9 multijet for a couple of weeks now and the only thing that concerned me was the reluctance to start from cold, and that's now, with UK Autumn temps still in mild double figures, so I was wondering how it would fair when temps are down near zero.

I'd found that I had to make sure the glow plugs had been given adequate time to do their preheating, so had bought a cheapo voltmeter that plugs into one of the cig sockets. That showed me when they switched off, after about 15 secs, when the voltage went back up above 12.

It was still tricky though, where I had to remember to wait for the preheaters each time I cranked, rather than just cranking repeatedly. I thought my battery was ok (famous last words ), because its resting voltage was 12.5, and I could get quite a few cranks out of it before it died.

....However, yesterday I cranked it flat again without being able to start. Luckilly though, I'd invested in one fo these new fangled Portable Lithium Jump Starter Gizmos, which I'd bought because I have an RV and a Boat as well, so it would be multi-purpose. (a Gooloo 4000amp).

I clamped it to the flat battery, and Wow, the engine burst into life much more readilly than ever before, catching instantly. So I guess despite my confidence in the resting voltage being 12.5, the cranking amps are well below par.​

It's so difficult to test these damn things without a proper Load Tester.

 

[cris1117]

Glad you got it sorted, most people don't realise that a diesel needs to crank quite fast to get enough compression to fire.

 

[OldGeek]

Glad you got it sorted, most people don't realise that a diesel needs to crank quite fast to get enough compression to fire.

It certainly made a big difference Cris, it's made it a different car.....

 

[bugsymike]

It certainly made a big difference Cris, it's made it a different car.....

In my old 05 Doblo 1.9 JTD I managed to fit the battery from a 2.8 Iveco by modifying the battery mounting base, I think it cranking capacity was around 600 amps.
It is not unheard of for car sellers to fit a cheap petrol engine battery in diesels in the summer to save money and it shows up with the first cold weather.
So always worth checking if your battery is what the maker recommends for capacity.
I also have a cheap chinese multitester which has a clamp on amperage facility though only up to 400 amps and an old Lucas one that rests on the leads that has a 600amp slot and a 60 amp for charging circuits somewhere in my garage.
Even a basic multimeter is handy as you can test individual heater plugs in situ with the terminal off using the Ohm position to check for continuity as when they fail it is usually open circuit.

 

[OldGeek]

In my old 05 Doblo 1.9 JTD I managed to fit the battery from a 2.8 Iveco by modifying the battery mounting base, I think it cranking capacity was around 600 amps.
It is not unheard of for car sellers to fit a cheap petrol engine battery in diesels in the summer to save money and it shows up with the first cold weather.
So always worth checking if your battery is what the maker recommends for capacity.
I also have a cheap chinese multitester which has a clamp on amperage facility though only up to 400 amps and an old Lucas one that rests on the leads that has a 600amp slot and a 60 amp for charging circuits somewhere in my garage.
Even a basic multimeter is handy as you can test individual heater plugs in situ with the terminal off using the Ohm position to check for continuity as when they fail it is usually open circuit.

The battery that was fitted in it dose appear to be the right spec for the 1.9d, it is 61ah and 600 cold cranking amps.

My guess is that even though the resting voltage looks ok (around 12.5), the cranking amperage capacity has diminshed, judging by how rapidly it fired when I connected the Lithium jump battery. It fired instantly, much quicker than when I started it with the original battery just after fully charging it overnight.
I did think that maybe one of the glow plugs had failed, but no, I get around 1 ohm on each one, right back to the control unit.

 

[OldGeek]

Well I now have to admit, it was the usual most obvious cause that was making the engine "reluctant".

I've now replaced the battery with a new 60ah 680cca AGM battery, and it's made it a different car.

Even first thing in the morning, I turn the key, let the glow plugs heat for just 3 or 4 seconds, and then cranking fires the engine within 2 seconds.

I was fooling myself with the resting voltage being 12.5v . Despite that, the cranking amps must have been significantly diminished.

 

[e42b]

Two years ago i killed the battery by letting the van rest for for months. After reading a bit about i decided to buy an AGM battery instead of a normal one although it costed 50% more than the latter.
Since AGM batteries are built in cars with stop-and-go functions i tried to use my van like that. I stopped the engine when it was possible, and restarted it (by key). I never recognised any weakness up to now albeit the 223's electronical system is not fully prepared to feature AGM batteries.

 

[OldGeek]

Yes, I found the AGM was 50% more expensive too, £120 instead of the £80 for a conventional wet cell.

I pondered over which sort to buy for quite a while (it's my first AGM), because I was getting widely conflicting advice from retailers and the Internet. One local spares retailer decried them, saying that they specifically were worse for intermittant use, (eg one journey per week).

...and yet most Internet resources stated that was their plus point, that the self discharge rate was much lower, and that they recharged quicker, due to their significantly lower internal resistance. The final perk was that most information sources stated that they do have a longer service life.

 

[bugsymike]

Yes, I found the AGM was 50% more expensive too, £120 instead of the £80 for a conventional wet cell.

I pondered over which sort to buy for quite a while (it's my first AGM), because I was getting widely conflicting advice from retailers and the Internet. One local spares retailer decried them, saying that they specifically were worse for intermittant use, (eg one journey per week).

...and yet most Internet resources stated that was their plus point, that the self discharge rate was much lower, and that they recharged quicker, due to their significantly lower internal resistance. The final perk was that most information sources stated that they do have a longer service life.

"The proof in the pudding" is, as with any product,how long is the warranty and do they honour it. Especially if a claimed longer service life.

 

[e42b]

My prices were € 110 instead of € 70 for a 70 Ah VARTA battery.
And yes, i read a lot before i got that hardly any of the posters, pros included, tested what they talked about.
I started my own test on the road instead.
After reading the warranty file i found out that there will be no warranty if you use the battery in an environment which it is not designed for.
You don't have another chance to test it out but giving a sh*** on the warranty.

 

[OldGeek]

"The proof in the pudding" is, as with any product,how long is the warranty and do they honour it. Especially if a claimed longer service life.

I'll let you know in 5 years time !


Amazon product ASIN B00PKLV7RY

 

[OldGeek]

My prices were € 110 instead of € 70 for a 70 Ah VARTA battery.
And yes, i read a lot before i got that hardly any of the posters, pros included, tested what they talked about.
I started my own test on the road instead.

"User" feedback is such a variable commodity !

 

[bugsymike]

"User" feedback is such a variable commodity !

Few people have the same vehicle in five years, unless it is a classic and then the supplier will probably say due to the low mileage you obviously are not using it enough to keep it in it's correct state of charge if it packs up. Suppliers usually wriggle out of warranties on higher mileage vehicles i.e. taxis by saying the warranty is not including "commercial use"

 

[e42b]

As if we not all know how insurances or warranties are working. Not to pay is their business.
When you dare to leave the predetermined way you're out of warranty.
Usual business

 

[e42b]

Mine is one of the following line: https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-silver-dynamic-agm, and it is working fine for two years now on my 223L 1.9 JTD MJ 120 HP.
And i'm not a professional workshop but just a guy who wants a working battery for quite some time.
I'll keep you updated.

 

[OldGeek]

Few people have the same vehicle in five years, unless it is a classic and then the supplier will probably say due to the low mileage you obviously are not using it enough to keep it in it's correct state of charge if it packs up. Suppliers usually wriggle out of warranties on higher mileage vehicles i.e. taxis by saying the warranty is not including "commercial use"

I quite agree Mike, although I'm in a rarer category, I usually keep my cars for several years, until it's time to bury them, (and before they become "valuable" classics !)

Before the Doblo, my previous car was a Suzuki Wagon, which I had for 9 years, from 11 years old to 20, and final resting place, with terminal corrosion in the sills. My VW T4 camper is now 25 years old, and I've had it for 22 years -

The Doblo is already 15 years old (2007), but still looks pretty good underneath and 90k mileage, so I'm hoping it will last until I can be buried in it....