Technical 2003 Ducato 2.0 JTD injector wiring diagram

[FamaMarah]

Hello All,

My 2003 Ducato (2.0 JTD) cranks but does not start. With the ignition key in the ON position (without starting the van) I hooked up the alligator clip of my test light to the negative battery terminal and probed the injector wires with the test light pin. There was no indication of a 12 volt power supply to any of the 4 injectors. Previous tests done in the same manner have always lit up the test light.

For this particular model, where is the +12v power to the injectors sourced from? I visually traced the wires coming from the injectors and they all seem to be hooked up directly to the ECU. I know that in most cases, the ECU completes the injector circuit on the ground side of the electrical set up. But does it also provide the positive 12v power in this particular model. If not, from where is the power sourced? Does anyone have a guide or diagram for the injector circuit? Please Help. Does the ECU have its own relay or fuse somewhere other than the main fuse tray?

Note: The in-tank pump primes and delivers fuel to the common rail high pressure pump. The fuses and relays in the engine compartment are all in good working condition. I am suspecting the ECU is damaged but there are no signs of electrical burns on it or anywhere else.

 

[bugsymike]

Hello All,

My 2003 Ducato (2.0 JTD) cranks but does not start. With the ignition key in the ON position (without starting the van) I hooked up the alligator clip of my test light to the negative battery terminal and probed the injector wires with the test light pin. There was no indication of a 12 volt power supply to any of the 4 injectors. Previous tests done in the same manner have always lit up the test light.

For this particular model, where is the +12v power to the injectors sourced from? I visually traced the wires coming from the injectors and they all seem to be hooked up directly to the ECU. I know that in most cases, the ECU completes the injector circuit on the ground side of the electrical set up. But does it also provide the positive 12v power in this particular model. If not, from where is the power sourced? Does anyone have a guide or diagram for the injector circuit? Please Help. Does the ECU have its own relay or fuse somewhere other than the main fuse tray?

Note: The in-tank pump primes and delivers fuel to the common rail high pressure pump. The fuses and relays in the engine compartment are all in good working condition. I am suspecting the ECU is damaged but there are no signs of electrical burns on it or anywhere else.

Were the previous testing using that method on petrol engines?
I maybe wrong but I think the diesel injectors operate at a higher voltage but for so short a time that a test light wouldn't react, so it could only be seen using an oscilloscope.
I would look to see if any error codes are showing using diagnostic tool via the OBD diagnostics port.

 

[Communicator]

I was initially inclined to be sceptical of the high voltage operation suggested by @bugsymike, but investigation shows that he is correct. eLearn for the 2.0jtd provides a detailed description and mentions two stages of operation at 80V fo opening followed by 50V maintaining. Both times will as intimated be very brief. Current in the region of 20A is also quoted. One side of the injector solenoids are connected in pairs to the ECU. I would expect that to be the supply side.

Famah Marah,

Your vehicle i approximately 20 years old, and a not uncommon cause of the engine turning over, but not firing is key code failure.

Have you eliminated this by checking that the key code padlock light illuminates, and than goes out, before trying to start the engine.

I could perhaps supply diagrams for the 2.0jtd, but it may take me considerable time to extract clear copies from eLearn. I suspect that they are identical with those for my 2.8jtd which I have already prepared. In either case I would need to know whether the vehicle has a metal canister fuel filter, or the UFI plastic bodied filter. The diagrams differ in detail.

 

[FamaMarah]

Thank you guys for your insights. . BugsyMike, the previous tests I mentioned were carried out on this same vehicle with a 2.0 JTD engine. I have always held JTD to be an acronym for JET TURBO DIESEL. You are right about the short duration of ECU signals to the injectors on the ground side. These come in pulses representing the opening and closing of the injectors by the ECU under normal operating conditions. Again these signals were also manifested in the test light in a blinking pattern. But with the Key in the ON position, the positive wires for the injectors should always have a constant voltage feed, which is presently not the case. I currently live in Conakry, Guinea and sophisticated scanning tools are not available in the market. I must rely on the test light and on the deductive abilities of experts like you.


Communicator, thanks for coming to the rescue again. You've been helpful in the past. I will also do some research on eLearn. But do keep in mind fellows that what I truly need to know at this stage is the source of the positive voltage signal to the injectors in a 2003 Ducato 2.0 JTD. Once the source is confirmed, I can carry out tests to see why the injectors are not get power when the ignition is in the on position but the engine has not yet been started. And because the engine cranks but doesn't start, I cannot perform the pulse signal test. Yes , the key padlock light does go out after a few seconds.

---

 

[Communicator]

FamaMarah,

Sorry for previous mistake, perhaps this time I can spell your forum name correctly.

I have looked at wiring diagrams for both the 2.0jtd and my own 2.8jtd. There are peripheral differences e.g. coolant temperature sensing, and cold starting, but otherwise very similar. I have located engine control drawings for the 2.0jtd on my hard drive, but as you did not reply as to the fuel filter type, they may not be entirely correct for your vehicle. Also eLearn drawings sometimes omit vital devices. I am attaching the drawings that I have converted to pdf format, but as you mention having eLearn it will give you the source of my information.

You ask about the source of the injector supply. It comes from the ECU. The supply to the ECU is controlled via the Main Injection Relay, T09, which can be found on Sheet 1, below the Battery Fusebox. T09 is operated when ignition is on, and the key has been accepted. The relay is located in the Engine Bay Fusebox, and when operated, supplies the ECU via fuses F17 (10A) and F22 (20A). From the fuse ratings I would expect the injector supply to be derived from F22, but I could be wrong. If you are seeking more detailed information reggarding the internal circuitry of the ECU, then I cannot help, but I woulld be interested if you were to share anything that you discover.

For more information regarding the injector operation, on eLearn for the 2.0jtd, folloow the path Descriptions> Engine>Bosch EDC......
Scroll down to Diagnostics. This mentions voltages to "Condenser 1" and "Condenser 2". This is a translation error using an obselete term. Substitute Capacitor 1 & 2.

This confirms a hypothesis of mine that for injector control there are two capacitors in the ECU, one charged to 80V, and the second to 50V. The electronics will briefly connect these to the injectors at the correct times.

Scroll down much further to Injectors, and you will eventually find a heading ELECTRICAL PROPERTIES. That is where the mention of 80V, and 50V occur. I deduce that the injectors have an electrical resistance of 4 Ohms.

I hope that some of this helps. At least I have found it interesting.

 

[FamaMarah]

FamaMarah,

Sorry for previous mistake, perhaps this time I can spell your forum name correctly.

I have looked at wiring diagrams for both the 2.0jtd and my own 2.8jtd. There are peripheral differences e.g. coolant temperature sensing, and cold starting, but otherwise very similar. I have located engine control drawings for the 2.0jtd on my hard drive, but as you did not reply as to the fuel filter type, they may not be entirely correct for your vehicle. Also eLearn drawings sometimes omit vital devices. I am attaching the drawings that I have converted to pdf format, but as you mention having eLearn it will give you the source of my information.

You ask about the source of the injector supply. It comes from the ECU. The supply to the ECU is controlled via the Main Injection Relay, T09, which can be found on Sheet 1, below the Battery Fusebox. T09 is operated when ignition is on, and the key has been accepted. The relay is located in the Engine Bay Fusebox, and when operated, supplies the ECU via fuses F17 (10A) and F22 (20A). From the fuse ratings I would expect the injector supply to be derived from F22, but I could be wrong. If you are seeking more detailed information reggarding the internal circuitry of the ECU, then I cannot help, but I woulld be interested if you were to share anything that you discover.

For more information regarding the injector operation, on eLearn for the 2.0jtd, folloow the path Descriptions> Engine>Bosch EDC......
Scroll down to Diagnostics. This mentions voltages to "Condenser 1" and "Condenser 2". This is a translation error using an obselete term. Substitute Capacitor 1 & 2.

This confirms a hypothesis of mine that for injector control there are two capacitors in the ECU, one charged to 80V, and the second to 50V. The electronics will briefly connect these to the injectors at the correct times.

Scroll down much further to Injectors, and you will eventually find a heading ELECTRICAL PROPERTIES. That is where the mention of 80V, and 50V occur. I deduce that the injectors have an electrical resistance of 4 Ohms.

I hope that some of this helps. At least I have found it interesting.

Spot on Communicator, Spot on. This is exactly what I needed. The information you have provided will be helpful to me and no doubt to many folks in these corners. 40% of the minibus taxis in Conakry are Ducatos, boxers and jumpers. But local automotive tecnicians are far behind electronic injection systems. carburators are all they know and love. This is bound to change with time.

Anyway, thank you very much for the painstaking research. I now feel sufficiently informed to navigate the maze of wires under the hood. I wish there was a way I could pay you for your efforts, as a token of my gratitude. Alas, I live in a cash based economy. Credit cards and other digital payment systems are rare or non existent.

Ps. I have never accessed eLearn before but when you mentioned it, I thought I could look it up online. Sorry I forgot to respond to your question regarding fuel filter type. My diesel filter has a cylindrical metal casing and it is vertically screwed on to a brass/copper piping coming from the fuel tank. The piping is fitted with two electrical connections just above the filter.

Thank you sir.

 

[FamaMarah]

Hello Communicator, are you there? I need some guidance again.

Attached are pictures of the engine compartment fuse box for the 2003 Ducato 2.0 jtd. One picture shows it in its upright, installation position.

The second picture shows it in its upsidedown position with a total of 5 harness sockets. I am interested in the middle row of sockets two of which bear 3 pins each and one bears 2 pins. Do you know to which parts/systems the harnesses for these middle sockets ought to be connected? In efforts to get power to the injectors, a series of electricians have cut and rejoined wires so many times that no one remembers the original configuration anymore.

If it's of any help, the fuse box bears the generic part number A223. Thank you.

 

[Communicator]

@FamaMarah,

Attached are details of all the connectors, except the M6 supply stud, on fuse/relay board B001, also attached is my colour code translator sheet. I have downloaded the connector details from eLearn using the 2.0jtd option, but I suspect that there is little, or no difference with other engines. Sorry but I think that I missed the aircon option on one of the connectors. The supply to some accessories is obvious, but others less so. You can deduce what is supplied via fuse labels for B001, and check via appropriate wiring diagrams, or track from connector to connector via the charts. A large part of eLearn for the 2.8jtd may be viewed here. Other than for some engine details, diagrams should be the same.

Does this help?

 

[bugsymike]

I was initially inclined to be sceptical of the high voltage operation suggested by @bugsymike, but investigation shows that he is correct. eLearn for the 2.0jtd provides a detailed description and mentions two stages of operation at 80V fo opening followed by 50V maintaining. Both times will as intimated be very brief. Current in the region of 20A is also quoted. One side of the injector solenoids are connected in pairs to the ECU. I would expect that to be the supply side.

Whilst it may not be relevant for this current problem, but as @FamaMarah mentions they lack speciast diagnostic equipment where he is located and that they are seeing several Ducato etc. he may be interested to know that when some years ago when fixing a Bosch common rail injector issue on a Ford Focus I was reading up some Bosch injector details and discovered about the high voltage needed to fire those injectors which I talked about earlier in the thread and are also similar to those used on multijet and Ducato etc. and I found I was able to test them in a basic way after rebuilding them by using an old type injector tester ( I bought a cheap Indian version which went up to around 600Bar) and pumping it up to that pressure I was able to test the solenoid part and the spray pattern simply by using a 24Volt battery pack and just "flashing" the power across the injector terminals causing them to activate, do not hold the wires on!!!
I fully realise this is well below their normal operating levels but in this primitive way I was able to rebuild several injectors back to working condition at minimal cost to MOT emission standards, which may be of use in the future where he is operating.
Note this only works on the older solenoid type and not the "piezo" ones.

 

[FamaMarah]

@FamaMarah,

Attached are details of all the connectors, except the M6 supply stud, on fuse/relay board B001, also attached is my colour code translator sheet. I have downloaded the connector details from eLearn using the 2.0jtd option, but I suspect that there is little, or no difference with other engines. Sorry but I think that I missed the aircon option on one of the connectors. The supply to some accessories is obvious, but others less so. You can deduce what is supplied via fuse labels for B001, and check via appropriate wiring diagrams, or track from connector to connector via the charts. A large part of eLearn for the 2.8jtd may be viewed here. Other than for some engine details, diagrams should be the same.

Does this help?

Thank you my friend, thank you very much. You always provide exactly what I need for tackling problems here, thus eliminating the need for follow up questions and comments. I'll try not to bother you too much
The diagrams/information sheets you sent are truly amazing. Indispensable even.

 

[FamaMarah]

Whilst it may not be relevant for this current problem, but as @FamaMarah mentions they lack speciast diagnostic equipment where he is located and that they are seeing several Ducato etc. he may be interested to know that when some years ago when fixing a Bosch common rail injector issue on a Ford Focus I was reading up some Bosch injector details and discovered about the high voltage needed to fire those injectors which I talked about earlier in the thread and are also similar to those used on multijet and Ducato etc. and I found I was able to test them in a basic way after rebuilding them by using an old type injector tester ( I bought a cheap Indian version which went up to around 600Bar) and pumping it up to that pressure I was able to test the solenoid part and the spray pattern simply by using a 24Volt battery pack and just "flashing" the power across the injector terminals causing them to activate, do not hold the wires on!!!
I fully realise this is well below their normal operating levels but in this primitive way I was able to rebuild several injectors back to working condition at minimal cost to MOT emission standards, which may be of use in the future where he is operating.
Note this only works on the older solenoid type and not the "piezo" ones.

Thank you BugsyMike for your insights on how to troubleshoot in low tech environments.

I have discussed your ideas with a handful of mechanics and electricians and we've agreed these are feasible ideas. We are pooling resources together for bench testing injectors, pumps, ECUs and some actuators.

The trick is to simulate as close as possible the operating conditions of a vehicle, at least at idle.

I may get back to you on this should we encounter hurdles or set up issues. We're also thinking about contributing money to buy a code reader from abroad. What is the most reliable and rugged brand out there? How much do they go for?

 

[Communicator]

@FamaMarah,
Please note that some of the wiring diagrams on the "4cardata" website, to which I linked, cannot be read due to oversize text. Examples here, for horn. If you have problems due to this, I have a nearly complete set of processed wiring diagrams for the x244, which I can attach on request.

 

[FamaMarah]

@FamaMarah,
Please note that some of the wiring diagrams on the "4cardata" website, to which I linked, cannot be read due to oversize text. Examples here, for horn. If you have problems due to this, I have a nearly complete set of processed wiring diagrams for the x244, which I can attach on request.

Hello Communicator,

Thank you for the offer. I have indeed come across diagrams from "4cardata" that are illegible. Some appear as though they've been blotted out with a marker. So while I have your attention, I formally request that you kindly send me the complete set of processed diagrams. They are bound to come in handy at some point in the near future. I cannot thank you enough for all the help you've been providing.

 

[Communicator]

My offer was intended to apply to a reasonable number of diagrams. I have about 50, and attaching all may crash the forum. Your request is formally denied. The offer remains open for specific diagrams.

 

[FamaMarah]

My offer was intended to apply to a reasonable number of diagrams. I have about 50, and attaching all may crash the forum. Your request is formally denied. The offer remains open for specific diagrams.

Ok, I understand. I will request specific diagrams when specific problems/situations arise. Thank you.