Brava 2001 Brava 1.6 SX - Beppe

[ben]

Fantastic, I don't think there are many of these left on the road!

Mine has been off road since 2005 but my friend always talks about getting it going again.

Keep us updated

 

[Didge3]

To do list goes as;

• Tyres
• MAF clean/relearn
• Rust proof
• Possible sunroof leak
• Service
• Wash!
• Throttle cable possibly?
• Bonnet latch
• Windows

I've driven him a total of about 120 miles, most of that was home from the dealer. The most notable thing wrong is the four ditch finders fitted, the front two having a date code of 2006... These are the worst tyres I've ever experienced, trying to pull out in any sort of hurry results in both fronts endlessly scrambling for grip, I've taken every corner very carefully as I have absolutely no faith in them.
Idle is a bit uneven and lumpy, I've read this is quite common and the MAF sensor probably just needs cleaning.
He's remarkably rust free, I suspect with such low annual mileage (averaged 250miles a year for the past 10, before that about 600 miles) he's avoided terrible salted roads fortunately. Rust proofing is top priority really, we all know 90s Fiats.
The headlining near the drivers sun visor looks water damaged, nothing has felt physically damp to the touch so it might just be an old leak but its certainly one to investigate.
No service history with the car whatsoever so who knows! The oil looks clean so hopefully its not been too long but will be getting oil and filters before he goes back on the road. I had the dealership I bought him from put a cambelt on, technically not due at 29k but I'm going to assume its not been done and 20 years is probably enough for the old rubber.
Urgently needs a wash and detail, hopefully get some scuffs out too, according to the V5 he's grey and not silver, I'll be the judge of that when he's clean.
One odd thing I've been experiencing, when you dip the clutch (after lifting off the throttle) the revs rise by about 200rpm before they start to fall, this makes changing up a big jerky as the engine is revving too high when you engage the clutch. My first guess is throttle cable might be sticking slightly so its not fully closing when lift off?
The bonnet doesn't like being closed, the cable release is very stiff for starters but it does ping up, the catch to hold it works fine but when trying to close it it wont latch down properly, I've managed to close it after fumbling around with it for ages but need to find a proper fix for it.
Electric windows are glacial.

 

[blu73]

I've not seen one of these in the wild in eons!! Somewhere in my garage I have a set of front and rear genuine linea accessories mudflaps from a brava. Bought them about 6 or 7 years ago cause they were too cheap not to and figured one day I'd come across someone that wanted them lol.
I'll admit at this point I've moved house a few times and I have zero ideas where they are but if i come across them while tidying the garage you are welcome to them for few quid and postage. They are would you believe still in original box and packaging with instructions and fittings.

 

[Didge3]

I've not seen one of these in the wild in eons!! Somewhere in my garage I have a set of front and rear genuine linea accessories mudflaps from a brava. Bought them about 6 or 7 years ago cause they were too cheap not to and figured one day I'd come across someone that wanted them lol.
I'll admit at this point I've moved house a few times and I have zero ideas where they are but if i come across them while tidying the garage you are welcome to them for few quid and postage. They are would you believe still in original box and packaging with instructions and fittings.

Yeah very few about these days, the old Bravos probably just as rare as the Brava so I just had to buy it! Do you miss your old HGT or is it lower in the list of “shouldn’t have sold”
Absolutely will take you up on the mudflaps should you find them!

 

[blu73]

I don't think I've sold a car and haven't regretted selling tbh.. Its nearly always that I want something else but can't afford to keep all the cars that I sell them really - sold that Bravo to buy Charmander off you which was just another car I'd always fancied owning and couldn't pass up the opportunity when Char went up for sale.
Funds allowing I'd have a fleet of 30 odd cars by now most likely lol, I've actually got another car on the way right now which means the panda 100hp will have to go in the new year which i'm already really sad about cause thats such a cool little car!!!
The HGT Bravo was a very very nice car though. I don't think I really had it long enough to properly bond with it and be properly sad when it went but was so nice to drive about in! And i nearly always found myself stopping to take a picture of it every time i got out of it lol.

 

[puntodeltathema]

Nice to see a Brava! Here's mine....an auto bought last year, having owned two other Bravas, 3x Bravo HGTs and 2 x Bravo HLXs over the last 15 years. Truly great cars, well regarded by the motoring journos before the Focus came along and moved the goalposts...shame they are nearly all landfill now.

 

[Didge3]

Nice to see a Brava! Here's mine....an auto bought last year, having owned two other Bravas, 3x Bravo HGTs and 2 x Bravo HLXs over the last 15 years. Truly great cars, well regarded by the motoring journos before the Focus came along and moved the goalposts...shame they are nearly all landfill now.


View attachment 400441

Great to see another still surviving, think there was an auto floating around on ebay for some years but it was quite tatty and then disappeared. I like those alloys, currently torn as to whether I want some or if I'll just stick to steelies.
The later 1.6 CF3 engine isn't particularly well documented, it seemed to live on in the Stilo but with changes from the Bravo/a, I'm guessing yours with its 100 16v badge is the earlier 1581cc, loads more info about on that engine

 

[puntodeltathema]

Thanks - the alloys are from the HSX/Formula model. Quite hard to find now but I sourced a set in Germany!

The auto has a particular period charm not least as Fiat stepped away from torque converter autos later on its "C" segment cars (sadly).

Yes the Euro 3 engine was only in the last year or two of Bravo/Brava production. It is basically the same engine but with longer stroke as I recall (there's a good Wikipedia article on the Lampredi SOHC engines; our "Torque" engine with its 16v head is basically its final incarnation - the *other* Lampredi twin-cam, if you like!).

I've a PDF of the workshop manual supplement for the 1596 - if you PM me your email address I'll attempt to send it over. Noticeable differences besides the capacity are EOBD (you should at least have the modern diagnostic port?) and the second lambda sensor with catalyst squeezed into the back of the engine bay. I think the injectors may have been more reliable on the 1596 - they are basically service items on the 1581. The Stilo version got coil-on-plug ignition and presumably another version of the engine management.

But a lot of the fundamentals are the same between 1581 and 1596 - the old Haynes manual on the Bravo/Brava is quite a good source.

Nick

 

[Didge3]

Yes the Euro 3 engine was only in the last year or two of Bravo/Brava production. It is basically the same engine but with longer stroke as I recall (there's a good Wikipedia article on the Lampredi SOHC engines; our "Torque" engine with its 16v head is basically its final incarnation - the *other* Lampredi twin-cam, if you like!).

I've a PDF of the workshop manual supplement for the 1596 - if you PM me your email address I'll attempt to send it over. Noticeable differences besides the capacity are EOBD (you should at least have the modern diagnostic port?) and the second lambda sensor with catalyst squeezed into the back of the engine bay. I think the injectors may have been more reliable on the 1596 - they are basically service items on the 1581. The Stilo version got coil-on-plug ignition and presumably another version of the engine management.

But a lot of the fundamentals are the same between 1581 and 1596 - the old Haynes manual on the Bravo/Brava is quite a good source.

Nick

A wealth of information thank you. I know a fair bit about the 128 SOHC range, the 1581 in my mk1 Punto was easy to work on but a bit more basic in reverse flow SOHC form.
It certainly does have EOBD and I've already had a scan tool on it to see if its upset about anything but doesn't seem to be. No coil on plug here unfortunately, hopefully you're right about the injectors as I'm not keen on sourcing them if they need replacing...
I will certainly take you up on the offer of the manual! Will shoot over a PM

 

[blu73]

tbh i find most fiats just just be flat down low, i guess I'm so used to the vvt in my suzuki now it makes engines without feel very lacklustre unless you ring their necks, its mental how much difference vvt makes to an engine! Really annoyed me going from the Ignis to the 100hp how gutless it felt when just pottering about it just had nothing below 4k at all

 

[StevenRB45]

I'd say I've never driven an NA 1.6 family hatch with "significant" get up and go without revving the arse out of it.

Most are set up for economical pottering about. No turbo etc or variable cams in your case so off peaks it'll probably be pretty turgid.

Mazda was the same despite VVT it would happily roll around at low rpm but if you wanted it to move you needed to drop 2 gears and give it the boot.

It wasn't a freak by any means...also driven a 1.6 petrol focus...and a 1.6 petrol Peugeot 307. They just tend to be a bit flat because it's comparatively weighty car compared to a supermini with not a huge amount of torque, and most NA cars don't hit peak torque until mid 4 rpm.

Having looked it up...apparently the engine spec is literally the same as the Mazda..103bhp..though only 106lbft of torque..compared to the "meaty" 107lbft the Mazda delivered...the fact your average supermini has 130-150 these days at 2k rpm is moot.

 

[Didge3]

tbh i find most fiats just just be flat down low, i guess I'm so used to the vvt in my suzuki now it makes engines without feel very lacklustre unless you ring their necks, its mental how much difference vvt makes to an engine! Really annoyed me going from the Ignis to the 100hp how gutless it felt when just pottering about it just had nothing below 4k at all

I'd say I've never driven an NA 1.6 family hatch with "significant" get up and go without revving the arse out of it.

Most are set up for economical pottering about. No turbo etc or variable cams in your case so off peaks it'll probably be pretty turgid.

Mazda was the same despite VVT it would happily roll around at low rpm but if you wanted it to move you needed to drop 2 gears and give it the boot.

It wasn't a freak by any means...also driven a 1.6 petrol focus...and a 1.6 petrol Peugeot 307. They just tend to be a bit flat because it's comparatively weighty car compared to a supermini with not a huge amount of torque, and most NA cars don't hit peak torque until mid 4 rpm.

I have been deliberating whether I'm just not used to it, I think its not helped by the tall gearing which almost never places you above 2500 in normal driving.
I've been driving a mix of turbocharged, VVT and now electric cars for the past 5 years (christ where did that go). Most recently the Vauxhall which has 275lb-ft at all RPMs so that has probably coloured my opinion somewhat....
I just feel my 1.6 Punto had more go with less power but then again it was 8v and had the same gearing as the Punto 55...
It 'feels' slower than my last slow car, the 1.1 75hp Smart but that had very aggressive VVT and short gears. It should be faster in a 0-60 but maybe its really got to be on the boil to achieve that

 

[StevenRB45]

I have been deliberating whether I'm just not used to it, I think its not helped by the tall gearing which almost never places you above 2500 in normal driving.
I've been driving a mix of turbocharged, VVT and now electric cars for the past 5 years (christ where did that go). Most recently the Vauxhall which has 275lb-ft at all RPMs so that has probably coloured my opinion somewhat....
I just feel my 1.6 Punto had more go with less power but then again it was 8v and had the same gearing as the Punto 55...
It 'feels' slower than my last slow car, the 1.1 75hp Smart but that had very aggressive VVT and short gears. It should be faster in a 0-60 but maybe its really got to be on the boil to achieve that

May be a kerbweight difference between the Punto and Bravo as well though. Though I'd doubt a cabrio Punto was a featherweight either even a mk1.

I think subjective speed between this and the Smart might be a bit misleading. I could be wrong but I'd imagine this is a bit more insulating and less busy.

I remember in my Uno 45 and Punto 55s days in isolation you could convince yourself it was shifting because it felt frantic. It wasn't until a transit van absolutely left you for dead that the reality arrived.

I'm surmising here...but I'd imagine you'll have less road noise, less engine noise, less wind noise and less sporting note than a mad a little 3 pot. Not only that probably bit more of a feeling of stability and heft. Generally these things combine to remove a sense of speed.

 

[puntodeltathema]

@Didge3, I think your experience accords with mine (albeit nearly 15 years ago!) in that my 1596cc (Euro 3) Bravo HLX seemed less eager on pick up than my 1581 Bravas, and the long gearing was certainly noticeable - though it was always a great cruiser. The catalyst/exhaust set up is quite different and they will have different engine management software, all focussed on reducing emissions. I recall the guy I sold my 1596 to remarking on a lack of eagerness and wondering if the cat might be breaking up - though I suspect that was just a ruse to beat me down on the price!

Sunroof likely to be the drains - the design means the glass panel doesn't actually seal in a fully watertight way, and relies on the drain channels underneath to take away any water that gets past. Get something to stand on and have a good look for gunk at each corner.

 

[Didge3]

Having looked it up...apparently the engine spec is literally the same as the Mazda..103bhp..though only 106lbft of torque..compared to the "meaty" 107lbft the Mazda delivered...the fact your average supermini has 130-150 these days at 2k rpm is moot.

Those are specs for the 1581, most sites seemed to just copy/paste the same stats for the 1596 but Fiat manual says 105hp and 111lb-ft, enough to set your hair on fire

May be a kerbweight difference between the Punto and Bravo as well though. Though I'd doubt a cabrio Punto was a featherweight either even a mk1.

I think subjective speed between this and the Smart might be a bit misleading. I could be wrong but I'd imagine this is a bit more insulating and less busy.

I remember in my Uno 45 and Punto 55s days in isolation you could convince yourself it was shifting because it felt frantic. It wasn't until a transit van absolutely left you for dead that the reality arrived.

I'm surmising here...but I'd imagine you'll have less road noise, less engine noise, less wind noise and less sporting note than a mad a little 3 pot. Not only that probably bit more of a feeling of stability and heft. Generally these things combine to remove a sense of speed.

Cabbie weighed about a tonne and Brava supposedly 1100kg so not heaps in it.

I think your experience accords with mine (albeit nearly 15 years ago!) in that my 1596cc (Euro 3) Bravo HLX seemed less eager on pick up than my 1581 Bravas, and the long gearing was certainly noticeable - though it was always a great cruiser. The catalyst/exhaust set up is quite different and they will have different engine management software, all focussed on reducing emissions. I recall the guy I sold my 1596 to remarking on a lack of eagerness and wondering if the cat might be breaking up - though I suspect that was just a ruse to beat me down on the price!

Sunroof likely to be the drains - the design means the glass panel doesn't actually seal in a fully watertight way, and relies on the drain channels underneath to take away any water that gets past. Get something to stand on and have a good look for gunk at each corner.

Think everyone has steered me towards nothings wrong and I agree after adjusting my driving style. Due to the leggy gearing and being used to turbocharged cars with globs of torque between 2000-3000rpm I find myself naturally changing around 2.5k which drops you to 2k in the next gear but leaves you with naff all power to get moving. I'm wringing it out a little more and find it makes perfectly good progress.
Over the last tank it has achieved 43.7mpg so Fiat obviously did something right getting the efficiency up and emissions down.

Thanks, need to have a good probe (haven't actually opened the sunroof yet for fear of making it worse). It won't bloody stop raining at the moment though