Technical 1600 tc engine in 127

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Technical 1600 tc engine in 127

mmhm.. but maybe a little on the heavy side.. the engine that is.

anyway, today I went to look at a 128 1300 -77 4speed that was for sale, real cheap too! (also thinkin as donor car if I go 1300)

car was in overall good condition, not too much rust either.
It drove real fine and all.. BUT when it came to engaging reverse gear, it just wouldnt engage!
so the owner tried, he couldnt either.
after like 30 tries to get in reverse, only five times it would engage.

a bit strange i thought cause the feel in the stick was pretty right, it pressed down and went a little further to the right, just like it should.
the times reverse really went in you could hear it as a normal clunking, so no strange noises or so..

what can cause this? I was thinking maybe linkage or some bushings..
or can it be a more severe problem?
should I buy the car or not? cause I then thought of taking engine/box/linkage/driveshafts.. what I may need.
 
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look at the clutch cable under the bonnet.how much of the adjusting rod is left? how much thread is showing in front of the locking nuts? also it could have a worn or badly adjusted rod.what i tend to do is put it in another gear first.this slow down the layshaft.then try to put it in reverse.could be selector or rod.
 
Sounds like the clutch on the 128 may need adjustment... if it went into reverse with no grinding... and it actually reversed without jumping out of gear... then the gearbox should be OK.

If the whole 128 is cheap, then it has nearly all the parts you need to convert to sohc power... four speed will be much easier than five speed...and the four speed box (IMO) is stronger anyway... especially the 77 year model... it has the best synchros of all the four speeds (there are about 3 diferent 128 four speed internal sets... 77 on is definitely the best)

is the 1300 sohc twin barrel carb / twin out exhaust?

Shortening the axles is quite straight forward... it just requires care and patience to get them straight when welding...

the 128 will also give you a heap of spares... as lots of mechanical parts are common between a 127 and a 128.

SteveC
 
I've already sent this info to Marcus (127swe) via an exchange of PM's thru this forum...but thought perhaps anyone else following the thread might be able to use this extra info..

Why you are probably confused is that there are two different 1300 engines... the one fitted to the 1300gt, which is different to the 128 based 1300 engine.

the 1300gt engine is 1301cc 76.1mm x 71.5mm (type 127A3.000)

the 128 engine is 1290cc (or also 1301cc) at 86.0 x 55.5 (1290) or in later years (like in Uno's) used (many variants but type 128 or 138 engines)...86.4mm bores and 55.5mm stroke

just like there are two 1050 engines...well one is technically known as a 1049 and one is 1050...

one based on the 850OHV... as found in A112abarth.

And the other is the small brother of the 127gt based 1301... also found in 127's for some markets...a bit like a 127 block, but 5 main bearing and has OHC but the cambox is integral with the head.... bit of trivia.

with a sohc 128 engine and gearbox...the only mount that will come close to lining up... is the lower engine/gearbox mounting on the lower crossmember.

I would use this as my reference to mount the engine (dummy fit) and work the rest out from there.

The 128 lower mounting will bolt to the 127 crossmember, and the 128 mounting will also bolt to the 128 gearbox... so that mounting is sorted out very easily.

at the gearbox end, the 127 has a mount... the 128 doesnt use this, it uses a top stay bar attched to the top of the cam box (some late 127's have a similar setup) ... so this will need to be fabricated / welded or bolted to a suitably strong point of bodywork.

You could make the gear box end mount fit up... I have done a similar mod to this on a few 128's to improve the shift at high revs (stops the motor moving around) ... just make sure you tap out the end cover bolts of the 128 gearbox to M8 bolts... the M6 ones will shear off... just like the M6's do into the 127 gearbox...

For the cam belt end of the engine... the way I saw the 127 converted... that was quite simply done using the std 128 mounting, and a fabricated mount welded to the bodywork in the RH inner wheelarch.

SteveC
 
I thought of an idea that may seem obvious.. but it didnt hit me untill now..
what about a standard 1050 sohc engine (these i can find) and tune it?

maybe stroke it to 1300cc like the gt..? but it would be rather long stroke then i guess..

well my question is wich is the best base for tuning; the 1050 sohc, maybe stroked to 1300..
..or the 128 1300 engine?

I'm a bit tired right now so.. maybe this question is a silly one but anyway :p

oh.. and I come so far in deciding that I wont go over 1300cc and i will stay with 4speed trans.. if anyone would like to know. :)
 
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1049cc engine type 127a.000 50hp or 70hp depending on the compression ratio (sport 9.8:1 / standard 9.3:1) and the sport has a more aggressive camshaft profile...

1301cc engine type 127a3.000 is 75hp...

but these engines (generally) are crap from a performance perspective in comparison to the 128 family of engines...I would stay away from them, apart from the fact that they have been factory fitted, so mounts and the like should be obtainable.

I would go for a 1050 (850 based) engine from an A112 before I went for the 1301/1049 (127a[3].000) engine... plenty of people have knowledge of how to improve these engines..... same as the sohc 128 based engines... there's a wealth of knowledge available about tuning....

Try finding anything about tuning the 1301/1049 engine... not much at all..same for tuning parts....I would avoid them.

SteveC
 
ok! thats good to know!

well anyway today I bought myself the 128 mentioned earlier,
-77 1290cc/4speed. :)

I will probably try and raise the output of the engine, but thats not priority #1 now, must make it fit first.

I need to clear out an other car in the garage before I can get my 128 in, but I'm very tempted to lift engines out of the both cars. to compare mountings etc.

thanks everyone for advice and tips!
theres really alot of knowledge in this forum (y)
 
iam glad you went 128 in the end.good choice.plenty of tuning scope.watch the gear box though.they dont like mad power outputs.up to 100 bhp will be ok i think.clutch will need upgrading.
 
allright! good to know I did good :p
yeah i will tune it some when I get to that, have to find suitable "tuning" parts from other fiats i guess.

oh well now I'm gonna go for a spin in my new 128! :D (yes I am! I'm not just saying that!)

see ya!
 
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