Technical 1600 tc engine in 127

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Technical 1600 tc engine in 127

127swe

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hello!
near me theres a salvage yard selling a ritmo 105 tc engine.
I'm thinkin about putting this engine into my 127..
can someone tell me if this is possible. and if so, what needs to be done to make it fit?
do I need the gearbox from the ritmo aswell?

if theres to much work involved in putting this engine in, maybe someone can suggest another engine that will go in more easily and still make around 100 horses :D ..besides the uno turbo..

ANY help appreciated!
thanx/Marcus :)
 
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engine and gear box needed.proberly will fit but a major task.your best bet is uno turbo engine.or maybe a sohc tipo 1600 engine.
 
An engine / gearbox from a 128 (1300 is 75hp) will fit in quite easily, or you could use a 1500cc sohc engine (85hp) from an X19 or regata, with the 128 g/box would be easiest...

I've driven a 1300cc powered 127 series 1, quite a standard 1300 128 coupe engine, and it had excellent power to weight.

SteveC
 
ok! that sounds fair to start with, but, since I live in sweden theres not many 128s around.
so the models I can get parts off from the breakers are: tipo, regata, uno, punto and some ritmo.. maybe an a112, but rarely an abarth.

I got the money and the skills to make and engine swap ;) just need to know what combo of gearbox/engine that will fit.

So what can I use, frome the above mentioned cars?

and thanx for the replys (y)
 
this is a hard question to answer.basically the uno engine will fit.so should the tipo and regatta.maybe look at the tipo and regatta.look at how the engines are mounted.may need to alter the mounts with bespoke ones.you should use the gearbox with the engine.the driveshafts and hubs will need investigating.brakes need upgrading.dont rush at it.oh,the 1300GT brazillian engine from the later 127 will also fit.you will need the 5 speed hubs though.i think they were changed circa 1981.lots to think about
 
yeah theres always lots to think of.. too much hehe!
well this 1300 engine with 5 speed from a 128, what year cars did it sit in?
and didnt that engine sit in any other cars? like newer models fiat?
oh well..
thanks!
 
btw i found a 1300cc 128 -77 engine in a town near me :)
is that the 75hp engine?
they didnt have the 5speed for the 128, but they did have a 5speed from a -83 127 1050..
would these to fit together?
 
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128 came with a 4 speed box.60 bhp.uno 1300 had 70bhp and 5 speed box.on the continent there was a 1500 version.this would be the car i would use as donar.
 
oh.. 60bhp.. :(
then whats fiatfactory talking about for 128 1300 with 75bhp?
what about uno 70s engine then will it fit?
feel like I´m full of questions.. but what can one do but ask :D

yeah and mine is a 127 MK1..
 
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ok. 128 1300-60bhp. 128 3p-73bhp. X1/9 1300- 73bhp. X1/9 1500-85bhp. uno 1300-70bhp. strada/regatta 1300-70bhp. strada 1500[85] -85bhp.early 128 coupe had 75 bhp.i very much doubt you will find one of these.i would use the uno 1300 sx as a donar.this had the best gearing and will make the 127 pretty fast.or you could use the 1500 engine from a strada 85 or regatta.or,try and find an early tipo/tempra 1.6 carb engine.these made about 88bhp.btw,many fiat engines exceded the manufacturers figures.thats why they were quicker then the opposition!!
 
What is the engine type of the 1300 128 engine that you have found? engine type/number is stamped on the rear face of the block, right hand upper.

This and a few other visual clues will tell you what the standard output was... which for a 1300 can range from about 60hp thru to 75hp... but most of the changes are bolt on, so you should be able to source any parts you might need...

If the engine has a 32DMTR two barrel weber carb, and has a twin outlet exhaust manifold, then it will be up or over 70hp... the rest depends on which inlet manifold and camshaft are fitted.

128 coupe/ rally has the best intake manifold standard... I still see them occasionally on ebay... so they are around...visually from the outside it has the mounting holes for the throttle bracket horizonatlly aligned.. sholud have a part number cast on the outside... I have manifolds around I can look at to confirm numbers if you want..

the 128 3p manifold has smaller ports... but can easily be opened up... the mounting bolt holes for the acc linkage are arranged diagonally... and of course the part numbers cast on the outside are goood clues as well.

The twin outlet exhaust manifold is worth around 8hp on otherwise identical engines...

If it has a single outlet exhaust manifold and a single barrel carb... its the 60hp end of the scale, but you can bolt parts on and make a lot of diference.

Simple enough to boost the output of an otherwise stock 1300 (which revs a bit harder than a 1500) to around 80/85hp with a larger 34dmtr carby and a 2inch exhaust system.... lighten the flywheel... simple stuff from the outside, without having to open the engine up (if you don't really want to)

A camshaft makes a fair bit of difference too... and having it in exactly the correct phase with the cank.

with a std 4 speed 128 box (which I think would be the simplest to fit) as the lower engine mount / cross member for a 127 and a 128 are very much alike... so a 128 lower engine mount onto the std 127 cross member...( that you might want to beef up just a little)

the regata85 5 speed (I think) will give you headaches with the extra length for the fifth gear extension... but otherwise is very similar to the 128 one in the arrangement of the inner "tripode" joints... once again similar to what the 127 runs... only slightly larger in a 128, and slightly larger again in the regata85.

You will need to shorten a pair of 128 axles (from memory of the times I saw the converted car) cut them on a lathe and reweld them when you figure out how much you need to remove

1300 and four speed is also the lightest combination... and with a 127 I think you want to keep the whole package as light as possible... using as many standard psrts as possible...

BTW X19 strut insert cartiges fit into 127 strut housings... you need to drill out the alloy dome at the top mounting to fit the larger shaft... but it works really well... from memory it took a thin (6mm) alloy spacer in the bottom of the strut housing is all that was needed. housing diameter / length is correct for the inserts, and it raises the damping rate up to about right for what you want to do...

128 springs are the same coil diameter as a 127 too... if you need to increase the spring rate to compensate for the extra weight of the 1300 these might be a good staring point... 128 coupe coil is 6.5 / 7 winds (this is all from memory) and the sedan is up around 9 winds, but you can cut them, provided you bend the cut end down, you need a flat wind so the spring seats properly.

SteveC
 
thats just about coveres it.the axle refers to the driveshaft.you could of course use a lancia Y10 turbo engine.would fit almost straight in.
 
ok! so a gearbox from a 127 never fits a 1301 uno or 1290 128 or 1500cc engines.. thats good to know!
would like to have a five speed though.. but shortening shafts, dont know if i can pull that off!
now I have to decide if I will go 1301 or 1500cc.. availabillity determines too..
yeah turbo.. but i dont think i really wont to go with a turbo engine.
ok thanks again! :)
 
The 1301 75bhp was also fitted, with a 5 speed gearbox to (wait for it!) the 127 1300GT. As such, this engine and gearbox will fit straight in with very little work. Be warned though that from my experience ( I have owned 2 127 1300GTs (MK3), 3 1050 cls(MK2) and a 127 1050 Sport(MK2)) the engine is not very good when compared to the 70bhp 1050 twin choke engine. 250cc for an extra 5bhp and a heavier engine?

If I recall correctly the 1301 engine and gearbox was also used in some Yugos from 1983/1984 onwards as FIAT sold the design to the Yugoslavs after the 127 was discontinued.

As for the 105TC, so far as I know it will fit straight in but you'd be advised to uprate the brakes and you'll most likely need the gearbox, driveshafts, hubs, etc, etc as well.

If you have a 1050 standard why not just source the twin choke carb. Makes a world of difference. :)
 
the 1300GT engine is a bored out 1050cc brazillian engine.totally different and inferior to the 128 type 1300/1500 sohc engine.
 
sumplug: yeah thats what i learned now too.

and for me it would be impossible to find either a 1050 sport or a 1300gt engine, so it will fal down to te uno70s or ritmo/regata 85s engine.

gearbox? I'm not sure.. hard to find even the 128 four speed.
gearboxes to the two above mentioned engines I can find.. but then I have to make it fit too.

what about engine mounts of the uno 1300 regata/ritmo 1500, how will it fit to my 127 mk1? much modification work there?

thanks!
 
you are going to have to measure a lot! it can be done though.the 5 speed box will be longer but should just fit.might need to bash the chassis rail in though!!! look at how much room under the bonnet the 127 has,and compare.mounts etc,will be proberly a mish-mash or purpose made by hanging engine in and making cardboard templates.
 
yeah I'll guess I just have to see how it all looks when I got the engine/box!
thanks :)
 
btw theres a guy selling a whole regata 100s, thinkin about as a donor car, but I'm pretty sure its not a 1500 sohc engine in those.
anyone know what engine sits in regata 100s -84?
 
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