General 128 3p Berlinetta

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General 128 3p Berlinetta

sick-slick

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What was the maximum rim size for the factory optional wheels on the 128 3p Berlinetta 1300? (stock were the 13”x 4.5”).
 
Hi. As far as i know, the steel rims were 4.5, my original cromodora rims are 5 inch, but i think the cromodoras were available in 5.5 too.also i've seen 14 inch Tipo alloys on a 3p without having to modify anything.hope this helps.
 
In factory/service Fiat, I remenber Cromodora CD18 to Fiat 128 3P, I supposed the CD30 are optional wheels to all Fiats, Abarth want to sell wheels, steering wheels and exhausts in these days.
 
Sorry, mate. I have confused some wheels here: I actually meant the CD18 too. That one had a close offset to the steel wheels and they have beens seen mostly on the 3P's.
The CD30 is an optional wheel made for Abarth, with less positiv offset, and quite popular on the 124 Spider but fits on most Fiat's.

Do you still have that factory book from Fiat stating the CD18 as the optional factory wheel?

Thanks for any help.
 
I have an original sales brochure for a berlinetta special series which says it comes with 'sports' steel wheels.Doesnt mention alloys.
 
I have an original sales brochure for a berlinetta special series which says it comes with 'sports' steel wheels.Doesnt mention alloys.

Well, that is not enough. It should be stated in one of those Fiat Technical Data Book or Fiat User Manual of some sort.

I need it for evidence, 'cause I have somebody who want's to know (appart for myself).
 
Factory alloy wheel upgrade for the coupe (which is obviously earlier than the 3p) is a CD8 (4.5 x 13) (magnesium alloy)

I have an abarth/cromodora brochure from 1983 that lists the CD18 as suitable for 128 Berlina/coupe/rallye (5 x 13 - aluminium construction) as well as many other Fiats ... but this is aftermarket, not factory fitment.

Almost identical to the CD18 is the CD9 (which is still 5 x 13, but I would have to check on the offsets) ... but the CD9's are magnesium alloy, and hence noticeably lighter ... next step up from these are CD11's which are 5.5 x 13 and also magnesium alloy (again there could be an offset difference to CD18's but I would need to confirm).

SteveC
 
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Hello Steve,

Nice to see you here as well.

I am in the middle of a wheel conversion (max track/ET, max wheel size). The issue I have is that the local engineer here (NSW) claims:

1. the front track of the 128 3p is according to his paperwork 1320, the rear 1330; my specs say: front 1325, rear 1333. ADR here allow 25mm over the factory size.
The exact specs are important to find out the ET for those new wheels.

2. the ADR allow an oversize (wheel width) of 1.5" beyond the factory optional wheels (not the stock ones). My specs say: stock 4.5" (so max allowed are 6"). Issue here: Where are those optional wheels stated as factory optional from Fiat?

I need to get to those AUS homologation spec sheets because I do not trust his paperwork (he doesn't even have these specs) he is not even capable to deliver any evidence for those figures he claims! Where are they?

However, after a little bit of questioning from my end, he was willing to accept any(!) other sizes (track and wheels) as long as I can bring him any proof of it.

Cheers and thanks for any imput.
 
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Well I'm (almost) 100% certain the track/wheelbase specs are identical for the 3p and the coupe, as they are both based on the shorter (and quite different to a sedan) floorplan ... I only have coupe literature, and the front track is listed as 4' 4 1/8" (52.125 inches is 1324mm) and the rear track as 4' 4 1/2" (52.5 inches is 1333.5mm) so I would say your closer than he is. (literature I have is pre 1974 so pre metric)

Factory brochure only lists the fact that there is a factory alloy wheel that is "available as optional equipment" ... but shows no pictures or sizing. I'm quite certain for the coupe that these were 4.5 inch CD8's.

Most times the factory alloy wheel is the same width as the steels (124/125/131/132) the X19 being one of the exceptions with 5 x 13 alloys, and the same 4.5" steel wheels as the coupe/3p

IMO... You will run out of allowable increase in track width before you get the 6" rims on ... and inwards you will run into clearance problems with the front strut / tyre ... the RTA inspector will want to see a good "couple of fingers" clearance between the strut and tyre ... so unless you want to change to small diameter coil overs, this and the track width will be limiting factors.

I had 6 x 13s on my 128 sedan (which were quite a "deep dish" -positive offset- wheel and were on it when I aquired it) and pretty soon I changed to 5.5 x 13 CD11's ... which are far less positive offset.. and my 128 definitely steers better with far less scrub radius (which is what you will get with a positive offset rim) as you shift the tyre contact patch away from the (theoretical) point where the strut centreline intersects the ground, which is actually the point about which the tyre rotates. The wider the tyre and the greater the scrub radius, the greater this "scrubbing" action will be. This makes the steering heavier, makes a car more likely to follow surface irregularities, and makes a car much harder to "turn in" under brakes.

SteveC
 
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Well I'm (almost) 100% certain the track/wheelbase specs are identical for the 3p and the coupe, as they are both based on the shorter (and quite different to a sedan) floorplan ... I only have coupe literature, and the front track is listed as 4' 4 1/8" (52.125 inches is 1324mm) and the rear track as 4' 4 1/2" (52.5 inches is 1333.5mm) so I would say your closer than he is. (literature I have is pre 1974 so pre metric)

Jeeez, you seem to have a library! But I know this from previous discussions in other forums.
You are right. Yes, both share the same platform. The track dimensions are the same.

Factory brochure only lists the fact that there is a factory alloy wheel that is "available as optional equipment" ... but shows no pictures or sizing. I'm quite certain for the coupe that these were 4.5 inch CD8's.
Most times the factory alloy wheel is the same width as the steels (124/125/131/132) the X19 being one of the exceptions with 5 x 13 alloys, and the same 4.5" steel wheels as the coupe/3p)
IMO... You will run out of allowable increase in track width before you get the 6" rims on ... and inwards you will run into clearance problems with the front strut / tyre ... the RTA inspector will want to see a good "couple of fingers" clearance between the strut and tyre ... so unless you want to change to small diameter coil overs, this and the track width will be limiting factors.
I had 6 x 13s on my 128 sedan (which were quite a "deep dish" -positive offset- wheel and were on it when I aquired it) and pretty soon I changed to 5.5 x 13 CD11's ... which are far less positive offset.. and my 128 definitely steers better with far less scrub radius (which is what you will get with a positive offset rim) as you shift the tyre contact patch away from the (theoretical) point where the strut centreline intersects the ground, which is actually the point about which the tyre rotates. The wider the tyre and the greater the scrub radius, the greater this "scrubbing" action will be. This makes the steering heavier, makes a car more likely to follow surface irregularities, and makes a car much harder to "turn in" under brakes.
SteveC

CD11: Yes, that's what I see the most on them (is my favourite anyway http://www.histowheels.com/Cromodora/Cromodora-CD-11), but will not change the fact that the 128 had in 4.5" steel and alloy. I bought mine with the CD10 on it (http://www.histowheels.com/Cromodora/Cromodora-CD-10) and they have the same dimensions as stock steel rims: 4.5"x13/ET33.

Clearance: That has been resolved with a coil-over kit already.

Scrubbing: Not quite. My experience with the scrubbing and the hard steering can be corrected/minimized in altering the toe-out/in and camber settings.
This needs to be done in any case, as soon as you make some changes on the tracktion IMO. Even changing to low profile tires.
Luckily, I have a coil-over kit which gives me the total libery in changing the geometry on this car (yes even camber!) apart from eliminating the clearance as you stated out (because that is in fact a limiting factor).
I noticed, moving away from those stock camber settings of 1° is already a relief what the scrubbing and ease of turning concerns especially with large rims. Consequently not changing to toe-in will make the car run after every crack on the road.
However, I have some ET0(!) with a very small steering wheel and do not have to be poppey to get this box around the turns.

Conclusion: I'll have to stick with the 6" and the max track width allowed. That's fine with me.
 
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