Technical 1242cc engine swop

[Nosforatu]

Hi all after a long wait I've gotten round to swopping in a 1242cc from a 60bhp mk1 Punto.
After read in the FAQ' s and quite a few build threads. I thought I had everything ready 10mm space etc.
Turns out no spacer required, as I had to swop the sump as the exhaust just wouldn't clear. Swapping the sump involved drilling and tapping 3 holes and a bit of relieving of the inside for clearance. Then all fitted nicely. Just need to put my 40mm throttle body together wait for a couple of gaskets to turn up, plumb the rad back in and all should be well. Then I'll be after a chip.

 

[fingers99]

Hang on a moment. You use the exhaust spacer so the exhaust will clear the 1242 sump.

1242 sumps are different from 1108 ones -- exactly why is a mystery to me, but I'd turn the engine over by hand to make sure that nothing actually hits the bottom of the sump and check the oil pressure very carefully on initial start up as the clearance between the oil pick up and the bottom of the sump is critical for oil pressure/delivery.

 

[Nosforatu]

Even with the spacer there was no way the down pipe was going to fit. I'm not sure wether thrre are differences between different 1242cc sumps.
After trial fitting the sump it did just touch in 1 place. This was relieved with a FBH:slayer: bolted down and checked for clearance. The oil pickups and depth to the bottom of the sump are the same.
Here's a pic of the holes that needed drilling and tapping.
Next on the list is a chip. Whats the best one to go for?

 

[fingers99]

You'll struggle to get a chip.

AFAIK, McCritch isn't doing them any more, the guy who used to do them in the UK (post McCritch) has left the country. There was a guy in Israel doing them on eBay, but I dunno if he still is.

You could pop an ad in classifieds......

 

[Nosforatu]

Ok no chip and more problems.
Just plumbed the exhaust in and started up.
1) it will not tick over at a steady rate. Its ok for about 20 secons or so then revs up and down between 1 and 2 thousand rpm. Air leak or something to do with the 40mm throttle body?
2) coolant leak looks like its coming from the water pump. Not a problem as I have a new one which I'm just about to fit.
3) The electric fan will not cut in. It was working fine. I did swop sensors from 1108cc into 1242cc, and have changed them back. No difference. This is the one in the head not on the inlet manifold.
Help very gratefully received.

 

[fingers99]

One in head(?) has no influence on the fan -- I'm assuming SPI here. The blue coded one on the inlet mani (and the one in the radiator) do all the work. Fan is switched on the earth side.

Reving up and down will be either a dirty IAC (on the throttle body), a faulty IAC, or an air leak.

 

[Nosforatu]

Ok here's another installment.
Not sure what the IAC is?'I did change the throttle position sensor and no difference.
Will change the blue sensor tomorrow. Though if you bridge the contacts at the connector for the rad the fan runs?
Had issues with the imobiliser making a buzzing sound then the engine cut out? Disconnected the battery for a bit re-connected and all is ok. I think this is why it cut out on me Friday afternoon.
Fitted new water pump and thermostat no leaks
Changed back to standard throttle body and tick over is steady. Noticed after removing and having a look the butterfly in the 40mm wasn't closing fully. I had left the stop where it was. Though because of the larger bore and all that boring trigonometry, this left a gap. Have adjusted the stop and will re-try. Hopefully that will cure its erratic tic over.
Just a bit concerned about the imobiliser now.
Thanks for your help so far.

 

[fingers99]

Ok here's another installment.
Not sure what the IAC is?'

Idle Air Control. The other black bit on the TB

Will change the blue sensor tomorrow. Though if you bridge the contacts at the connector for the rad the fan runs?

It should. Does sound -- assuming that the fan motor runs with 12v applied directly -- like an earth fault.

Had issues with the imobiliser making a buzzing sound then the engine cut out? Disconnected the battery for a bit re-connected and all is ok. I think this is why it cut out on me Friday afternoon.

The immobiliser doesn't make a sound. Sticky starter solenoid? Bad battery contact?

 

[Nosforatu]

Ah ok. Ever days a school day. You've got to love tla's (3 letter anachronim's)
The bit that was making the noise is a white ish box next to the ecu. That has a whole bunch of wires going into it.
Can't remember if I said but the "code" symbol on the dash lit up.
Also I should have stated this is a SPI to start with. Doh!

 

[Nosforatu]

This is the box that is ticking, a bit like a dodgy relay.

 

[ycming]

Mate sure all your earth is bolted back to it's place. Is the one that bolts to the gearbox back on?

Ming

 

[fingers99]

Could very well be that one. The white box is the master relay.

 

[Nosforatu]

Throttle stop adjusted now. 40mm Throttle body on and ticking over fine and dandy. :slayer:
Changed the blue sensor on the intake manifold, no change. Strange as it all worked fine before it came apart. I have wired in a temporary switch to operate the fan.
Car back on wheels and been for a gentle drive up the road. Have a knocking from the drivers cv joint that wasn't there before and the clutch pedal is a bit high.
So a bit more to do.
But getting there and at least Nigel is drivable again. Going to take him for a bit of a longer test drive in a bit

 

[tardiscento]

What cam are you using in the engine, is it the stock Punto 60 engine etc?

 

[Nosforatu]

Just did a steady run 16 miles , watched a film and coming back, gave him a better stretch of his legs. More urgency low down builds steadily with a nice spread of power. There's no real rush to the top end like the 1108cc. But does hold speed nicely on hills. It would be nice to have a bit more punch and there's a little flat spot/ bit of hesitation at very small throttle openings. I think a chip would be really good just need to try and find one.

To answer your question. Its a totally stock 1242cc 60bhp apart from the 40mm throttle body. Stock air filter and exhaust, bar the back box which is Sebring.

 

[tardiscento]

I've just done the 1242 8v engine swap on mine but used the 866 cam with the 40mm TB, flywheel lightened by 1kg and and cat back Janspeed exhaust. It now goes like **** off a shovel. Highly recommended.

 

[tardiscento]

Plus a green filter. Haven't done anything to the ecu so wouldn't bother if i were you.

 

[Nosforatu]

Drove 40miles this morning thru mixed roads pulled well. Got to Exeter then just wouldn't pull away unless it was reving past 3000rpm. Up until then it was good, just a little flat spot at just under 2000rpm.

 

[fingers99]

Missing? Overheating?

Otherwise MAP sensor, slipped timing or lambda are likely culprits.

Any ECU light?

 

[Nosforatu]

Only light was the over heat light dimmly lit. Had fan running on bypass switch, so shouldn't have been hot. Its a journey I do regularly and the fan normally only cuts in a few times I. Traffic.
On the way back it was just as bad, after 4 hours colling down. On the way back I stopped in at a friend's and disconnected the battery for about an hour. I remembed reading somewhere that the ecu has a partial relearn section. Though that could be rubish. Re-connected it and drove back. Now it's driving nicely