Arc that's exactly what i asked.....
I've been getting that invisible feeling this week
I've been getting that invisible feeling this week
Technical 1242 engine
- Thread starter Mr Brown
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Technical 1242 engine
Lowtechguy
Member
LOL at this thread...
the injector is switched on and off in sucession to make squirts of fuel which disperses with air coming in.. the amount of fuel needed to make 80bhp will cause this injector to be effectively switched on all the time meaning that it has lost its value as an injector, it is now a tap...behond this it will burnt out...
This was proved by someone else with pages of data I didn't understand and is far to complicated for me to learn...
On this thread someone else said they fit a second injector on the turbo setup...
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowtechguy
In what way would you lighten your valve train then?
www.gsrmotorsport.com sell lightened valve trains."
Of course I know this but I wanted to know what he knew about the subject... it says on the website they do it, not how exactly....
What I was thinking was larger or second injector but I cannot do this on the standard ecu, which is what I want to do...
Back to the drawing board then...
the injector is switched on and off in sucession to make squirts of fuel which disperses with air coming in.. the amount of fuel needed to make 80bhp will cause this injector to be effectively switched on all the time meaning that it has lost its value as an injector, it is now a tap...behond this it will burnt out...
This was proved by someone else with pages of data I didn't understand and is far to complicated for me to learn...
On this thread someone else said they fit a second injector on the turbo setup...
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowtechguy
In what way would you lighten your valve train then?
www.gsrmotorsport.com sell lightened valve trains."
Of course I know this but I wanted to know what he knew about the subject... it says on the website they do it, not how exactly....
What I was thinking was larger or second injector but I cannot do this on the standard ecu, which is what I want to do...
Back to the drawing board then...
You can fit a 2nd injector using an MF2 contoller but still have the problem of the map sensor....
Which at that point you might as well have a turbo setup....
Why can you not just fit a larger injector i.e the one they use as the 2nd injector on the turbo setup as this is definately bigger than the normal one....
And should surely be able to handle more as if they are indeed Cossie inj they should be good for around 100bhp each right?
Which at that point you might as well have a turbo setup....
Why can you not just fit a larger injector i.e the one they use as the 2nd injector on the turbo setup as this is definately bigger than the normal one....
And should surely be able to handle more as if they are indeed Cossie inj they should be good for around 100bhp each right?
i thought the map sensor is only an issue when using a turbo, because it can't read positive pressure hence needing a box of tricks; so if its staying n/a a second injector using the MF2 it should be ok.
Why would you need an aftermarket ECU to drive a larger injector, you could just adjust the map on the standard ECU to accomodate for the fueling. I'm guessing a pulse of the same duration on a larger injector will put more fuel in, so you'd need to sort that out.
Why would you need an aftermarket ECU to drive a larger injector, you could just adjust the map on the standard ECU to accomodate for the fueling. I'm guessing a pulse of the same duration on a larger injector will put more fuel in, so you'd need to sort that out.
Actually yeah on the map sensor bit i was confussing myself...
Well i'm sure that if a cinq ECU can adjust to run a 1242 fine it should be able to adjust to a bigger injector no problem...
Well i'm sure that if a cinq ECU can adjust to run a 1242 fine it should be able to adjust to a bigger injector no problem...
possibly not.. im guessing the injector on the 1108 and 1242 is the same, and then anything with more power goes MPI. But like i say, if it cant adjust itself - custom mapping time.
or just use the MF2
or just use the MF2
Lowtechguy
Member
well the MF2 is a piggy back system, which after that and custom mapping you might as well have got an aftermarket ecu....arc said:
Bigger injectors is a crude way but sometimes the only way admittedly...
But nobody except turbo cinqs have this problem yet...
not strictly true, esle wouldnt vAD have done that rather use the MF2
Lowtechguy
Member
uad??arc said:
Dont make me laugh...
vAD.. you know the ones who do the turbo conversions..
Not UAD, VaD, look closely at the previous post.
Cheers
D
Cheers
D
OOps, late on the post again.
Cheers
D
Cheers
D
The MF2 is about £200, once they know how to set them up it's cheaper I'd guess than a pukka stand alone engine management system, plus this way it retains Fiat's immobiliser.
If you wanna go more than 80bhp, then do the MPI 75 engine conversion - then you can get an ecu designed for the job from a scrap yard.
If you wanna go more than 80bhp, then do the MPI 75 engine conversion - then you can get an ecu designed for the job from a scrap yard.
Lowtechguy
Member
fixitagaintomorrow said:
I'd rather not have the extra head ache of spi to mpi conversion otherwise I would do a 16v and I dont have the budget to do that...
I thought MF2's were for turbo conversons
Never seen van Aaken refered to as VAD but I know know what you mean...
MF2 can be used for any application, turbo or not. The controller can be used for water injection too.
Lowtechguy
Member
I'm looking into the MF2, there is burton power and TDI near me and they are uk distrubutors for the product so I will give them a visit...fixitagaintomorrow said:
However what about ignition? Is there a product anybody has had experience with that control this away from the ecu?
Hi Lowtechguy
I think you are wrong about the 80 Hp.
I have calculated that the original injector can deliver fuel to 94 Hp on the original 2.5 bar fuel pressure.
The theory about the injector spray is also wrong - the injector doesn’t spray because of the open/close procedure, but because of the needle head on the injector. When fuel hits this needle head it will spray because of the pressure from behind (This can be different on other injectors - I don’t know - but on the monopoint of Cinq/Sei and Punto the spray is made by the needle head on the injector)
If you raise the fuel pressure to, let’s say 3 bar, the original 523.00 injector can deliver fuel up to 103 Hp.
3.5 bar of fuel pressure will deliver fuel to 111 Hp.
Hope this will sort out any doubt about getting over 80 Hp on the monopoint of Cinq/Sei.
I think you are wrong about the 80 Hp.
I have calculated that the original injector can deliver fuel to 94 Hp on the original 2.5 bar fuel pressure.
The theory about the injector spray is also wrong - the injector doesn’t spray because of the open/close procedure, but because of the needle head on the injector. When fuel hits this needle head it will spray because of the pressure from behind (This can be different on other injectors - I don’t know - but on the monopoint of Cinq/Sei and Punto the spray is made by the needle head on the injector)
If you raise the fuel pressure to, let’s say 3 bar, the original 523.00 injector can deliver fuel up to 103 Hp.
3.5 bar of fuel pressure will deliver fuel to 111 Hp.
Hope this will sort out any doubt about getting over 80 Hp on the monopoint of Cinq/Sei.
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The SPI setups only run at 1.1 bar though, unless you fiddle it....
