Technical 1.9td DHX year 2000,

[RRV8]

Hi all, I have a Ducato 1.9td (2000) with 180,000 km. I have just change the TB, the valve shims were done, new heater plugs fitted, fuel filter change. Air removed from fuel line.
I have notice a few bubbles every two mins or so in the water header tank, while idling. The engine oil colour is fine on the dip stick.
It is very hard to start and very smokey (I think white) when it's does start. I have to press the accelerator to start it when cold. When it is warm or hot it runs fine and the smoke clears up after half a mile drive.
I suspect coolant is leaking into a piston or two when stopped.
Did anybody have this problem before.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi all, I have a Ducato 1.9td (2000) with 180,000 km. I have just change the TB, the valve shims were done, new heater plugs fitted, fuel filter change. Air removed from fuel line.
I have notice a few bubbles every two mins or so in the water header tank, while idling. The engine oil colour is fine on the dip stick.
It is very hard to start and very smokey (I think white) when it's does start. I have to press the accelerator to start it when cold. When it is warm or hot it runs fine and the smoke clears up after half a mile drive.
I suspect coolant is leaking into a piston or two when stopped.
Did anybody have this problem before.

There are several tools to test for this, but a quick guide is when engine warm and coolant tank pressure released safely, see if you can get a "combustion smell" by sniffing the bubbles in the coolant tank.
One tool sniffs the gas and changes colour if combustion gas present.
Another which is more involved, but I prefer as definitive, is a leak test. There are expensive tools to test for this, but a basic one can be made with an adaptor and a source of compressed air @ 150psi.

 

[RRV8]

There are several tools to test for this, but a quick guide is when engine warm and coolant tank pressure released safely, see if you can get a "combustion smell" by sniffing the bubbles in the coolant tank.
One tool sniffs the gas and changes colour if combustion gas present.
Another which is more involved, but I prefer as definitive, is a leak test. There are expensive tools to test for this, but a basic one can be made with an adaptor and a source of compressed air @ 150psi.

Thanks for your reply bugsymike, I like learning and fixing myself. Is it 150psi that's connected to the coolant side or combustible side?

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks for your reply bugsymike, I like learning and fixing myself. Is it 150psi that's connected to the coolant side or combustible side?

None of the above .
It may be an idea to read up about it to better understand, but I will happily give you the basics.
What you need is a good supply of compressed air at 150 psi, an airline adaptor using either an old heater plug or an old injector, weld or braze the two together so you you can screw a high pressure supply into the combustion chamber without any airleaks.
What you then have to do before connecting to air supply, is with the heater plugs or injectors (which ever adaptor you are going to use) out of the engine, turn the engine to the firing stroke on the first cylinder you want to test, so piston is at TDC on the firing stroke so both valves are shut, you then need to lock the engine from turning, it may be best to mark the TDC point before doing this, as when you apply compressed air the engine will try to turn over, if it moves from TDC on the firing stroke the valves may start to open and ruin the test.
With all this done, in your case with coolant lid off and filled to brim with coolant, if there is a gasket leak / cracked head or whatever, on that cylinder you may see the coolant level start to rise to the point it starts to overflow , it may take a few minutes if a small leak, though with a badly blown head gasket I have seen it shoot the water right out.
You then have to repeat the test on each cylinder exactly the same way, so it is not a five minute job, but the benefit of it is it pinpoints exactly which area and cylinder to examine.
This test can also show if piston wear by blowing air out of the oil filler cap etc., exhaust valve wear , you can hear it at the tail pipe, inlet valve wear , hear it with the air filter off.
There should be nothing blowing from any of those apart from a slight bit past the pistons which can't seal as well as the rest, but you can compare with the other cylinders. By the way if listening for air in air cleaner past the inlet valve don't let a engine breather confuse the test.
This is a cheap way of testing which the more you use the better you will see the benefit of .
The proper kit is available which also measures percentage of loss for comparison between cylinders. I do have a Bosch version for older diesels, but given there are so many modern injectors and heater plug sizes , this seems to do the job cheaply.
Before doing this , a quick test as I suggested earlier may be enough.

 

[RRV8]

None of the above .
It may be an idea to read up about it to better understand, but I will happily give you the basics.
What you need is a good supply of compressed air at 150 psi, an airline adaptor using either an old heater plug or an old injector, weld or braze the two together so you you can screw a high pressure supply into the combustion chamber without any airleaks.
What you then have to do before connecting to air supply, is with the heater plugs or injectors (which ever adaptor you are going to use) out of the engine, turn the engine to the firing stroke on the first cylinder you want to test, so piston is at TDC on the firing stroke so both valves are shut, you then need to lock the engine from turning, it may be best to mark the TDC point before doing this, as when you apply compressed air the engine will try to turn over, if it moves from TDC on the firing stroke the valves may start to open and ruin the test.
With all this done, in your case with coolant lid off and filled to brim with coolant, if there is a gasket leak / cracked head or whatever, on that cylinder you may see the coolant level start to rise to the point it starts to overflow , it may take a few minutes if a small leak, though with a badly blown head gasket I have seen it shoot the water right out.
You then have to repeat the test on each cylinder exactly the same way, so it is not a five minute job, but the benefit of it is it pinpoints exactly which area and cylinder to examine.
This test can also show if piston wear by blowing air out of the oil filler cap etc., exhaust valve wear , you can hear it at the tail pipe, inlet valve wear , hear it with the air filter off.
There should be nothing blowing from any of those apart from a slight bit past the pistons which can't seal as well as the rest, but you can compare with the other cylinders. By the way if listening for air in air cleaner past the inlet valve don't let a engine breather confuse the test.
This is a cheap way of testing which the more you use the better you will see the benefit of .
The proper kit is available which also measures percentage of loss for comparison between cylinders. I do have a Bosch version for older diesels, but given there are so many modern injectors and heater plug sizes , this seems to do the job cheaply.
Before doing this , a quick test as I suggested earlier may be enough.

Ok bugsymike that's very clear to me now. I'm so grateful to the time you took to key in all of that info above.
I plan to make to carry out the cheap way of testing as you described above. I will let you know the progress is due time.

 

[RRV8]

I carried out the compressed air testing with an old heater plug fitted with an air line fitting. I could only use 90 psi of air.
I found my inlet valves were passing air very very slightly. The exhaust valves were perfect. I did not witness any air bubbles in the coolant header tank. The engine was cold when carrying out this test.
I have decided to drive it as it is. Initially the inlet valve gaps were too tight so I'm hoping with the correct valve clearances now that the inlet valves will seal better. I tested the piston rings. I'm fairly sure 123 were ok but I did hear air passing on piston 4. I connected a pressure gauge to each heater plug connection point. While turning the engine over the guage pressure was similar in each firing chamber.
I took in for an 80 mile round trip yesterday and I'm happy enough with it. I adjusted that extra diesel start up lever on the injector pump. This morning was the first time it started with one turn of the key and no throttle.

 

[bugsymike]

I carried out the compressed air testing with an old heater plug fitted with an air line fitting. I could only use 90 psi of air.
I found my inlet valves were passing air very very slightly. The exhaust valves were perfect. I did not witness any air bubbles in the coolant header tank. The engine was cold when carrying out this test.
I have decided to drive it as it is. Initially the inlet valve gaps were too tight so I'm hoping with the correct valve clearances now that the inlet valves will seal better. I tested the piston rings. I'm fairly sure 123 were ok but I did hear air passing on piston 4. I connected a pressure gauge to each heater plug connection point. While turning the engine over the guage pressure was similar in each firing chamber.
I took in for an 80 mile round trip yesterday and I'm happy enough with it. I adjusted that extra diesel start up lever on the injector pump. This morning was the first time it started with one turn of the key and no throttle.

Hopefully nothing serious then, although I prefer 150psi, (even though still along way from combustion pressure) re the air bubbles , if only a very slight leak it may only show if rad filled to brim just a very slow raising and overflowing of the water, barely perceptible after a few minutes, not necessarily bubbles.