1.2 Fire 69CV 2014 - Car dealer can't solve the problem! P0016 CAM SHAFT FAULT

[esquarcit]

Hello everyone!

I'm stranded abroad with my Ford KA 1.2 fire engine... basically a Fiat car rebranded Ford.

Error code appeared p0016, sensor of the cam shaft. Apparently, belt is fine, sensor is fine, wiring is okay.

The car is now at an official Ford dealer, they called the FORD mother house and they replied that they are aware about the problem, must be a valve but couldn't provide a solution....!!

Does anybody had an experience similar to mine? Maybe in Fiat they are more aware. I'm desperate, I'm not even in my country, basically I'm stranded abroad.

What are the possible solutions available guys? What might expect to come out of this?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Unless I'm very wrong this code indicates the camshaft and crankshaft sensors aren't in synchronization.

Does the car drive normally? If so it's likely it needs to have a "Phonic Wheel Relearn" performed which has to be done using dedicated electronic "gear" - so either the dealership diagnostic equipment or some thing like the computer based Multiecuscan softwear.

It's a pretty simple plug in proceedure so well worth a try.

If that doesn't fix it some more serious thought will need to be applied.

 

[jackwhoo]

Did this occur whilst driving or after mechanical work?

Does the car drive?

 

[jackwhoo]

Oh, yes you have come to the correct forum for answers to your car engine problem.

 

[esquarcit]

Thanks guys! I'll add some extra context. I'm in between the moutains somewhere in Bulgaria and I went first to the best garage in the area after the problem showed up, one day out of nowhere when I started the engine in the morning. The car is in "protection" mode since then. If you reset the fault appears back instantaneously. The car is 80k kms and never had a problem.
At the first garage, they didn't have a specialist on electrics so they told me to go to the official Ford Dealer, thing that I have done.
The problem is that they don't have a clue of what it is. They even told me they called to the mother house, and they didn't provide a solution.
They checked wires, sensor and belt. Problem is not there.
The mechanic mentioned "valve", a problem with the valve.

Guys I'm desperate what approach you would suggest for me? I mean, it's possible to fix this? What spares can be needed? Can be as @Puggit said above a problem in the ECU? Maybe I can try to mention them this? Which parts might be swapped as last resort? Hopefully not the entire engine!!!
Perhaps I should bring the car to an official FIAT dealer?

What's the best way in your opinion?

Sounds weird in 2024 there's no solution.......

​

 

[esquarcit]

Unless I'm very wrong this code indicates the camshaft and crankshaft sensors aren't in synchronization.

Does the car drive normally? If so it's likely it needs to have a "Phonic Wheel Relearn" performed which has to be done using dedicated electronic "gear" - so either the dealership diagnostic equipment or some thing like the computer based Multiecuscan softwear.

It's a pretty simple plug in proceedure so well worth a try.

If that doesn't fix it some more serious thought will need to be applied.

Thanks man appreciated. The car sounds normal but it in protection mode (leap?) and actually can't go anywhere... Uphill impossible. I've added some extra context in the message above.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks man appreciated. The car sounds normal but it in protection mode (leap?) and actually can't go anywhere... Uphill impossible. I've added some extra context in the message above.

Hmm, so it doesn't drive normally - Needing a phonic wheel relearn doesn't usually make the car any different to drive from normal, just lights up the engine management light on the dash. From what you're saying it's in "limp" mode, So drives poorly with much reduced acceleration and top speed? I'm wondering if the timing belt might have skipped a tooth or two? This engine will be the interference engine so if it skips any more than a couple of teeth serious damage will result. Have the garage checked the belt? Might also be something to do with the solenoid controlling oil flow to the VVT camshaft pulley or possibly the pulley itself?

Edit, OOPs, sorry, just noticed you mention they've checked the belt. You mention they're suspecting the valve which, I guess, means they suspect the solenoid valve which controls the oil flow to the VVT. Removing it is simple and it's operation can be checked by applying current to it when it should "click". If it does that and it's not blocked with debris (it has a fine filter built in) then I'd be looking for continuity in the supply wire. Might be an ECU problem but, in my experience component and wiring faults are much more likely.

 

[jackwhoo]

The valve mentioned is most likely to be the vvt solenoid valve , screwed into top of engine. The valve has gauze filters on it to stop dirt in oil getting through , sometimes the gauze gets blocked or the valve gets stuck.

Or the synchronisation between the crank shaft and cam shaft has been lost-
Special tools are required to check the synchronisation (timing) on your engine.
Lots of people and garages get this timing check wrong.

You need a garage that knows what they are doing with timing belt synchronise and has the special tools to check.

Can you get your car home to Italy and go to garage there?

 

[jackwhoo]

One thing you can check is the pulley on crank shaft for belt that drives alternator is not loose.

 

[jackwhoo]

After making sure crank shaft pulley is secure.....

Probably the cheapest first option for you is replace the vvt solenoid valve , try clear fault code, see if it comes straight back.

If it doesn't cure problem the next step is the more expensive crank shaft, cam shaft synchronization check using special locking tools.

 

[esquarcit]

emoving it is simple and it's operation can be checked by applying current to it when it should "click". If it does that and it's not blocked with debris (it has a fine filter built in) then I'd be looking for continuity in the supply wire. Might be an ECU problem but, in my experience component and wiring faults are much more likely.

Hopefully is that. They sounded quite "lost" the guys

You need a garage that knows what they are doing with timing belt synchronise and has the special tools to check.

Can you get your car home to Italy and go to garage there?

I wish I was in Italy, I think FIRE engines are the bread of every mechanic ....Although, I went to the official ford dealer of the region, it's a quite big facility.... Sounds weird they cannot come out with a solution. Do you think would change anything going to the Fiat dealer? The Ford Ka is not a very popular car over here.

One thing you can check is the pulley on crank shaft for belt that drives alternator is not loose.

I will mention this to the guys at the garage even tho it will sounds like I want to do their job

If it doesn't cure problem the next step is the more expensive crank shaft, cam shaft synchronization check using special locking tools.

I hope they can perform this operation in case.


I'm wondering if there is the risk they cannot come out with a cure....?

 

[jackwhoo]

Post in thread 'Fiat Panda 1.2 2010 Rust issue and possible solutions for it?' https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/f...possible-solutions-for-it.506514/post-4730670

Photos of vvt valve and gauze that can clog in that link

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I'm wondering if there is the risk they cannot come out with a cure....?

As in all things in this life, always possible I suppose?

 

[esquarcit]

Thanks guys much appreciated. I'm in the end of the garage... Hope they are a little professional like you

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks guys much appreciated. I'm in the end of the garage... Hope they are a little professional like you

Please do let us know how it works out. - good luck.

 

[portland_bill]

If there is a Fiat garage nearby, they are much more likely to be able to diagnose and fix this, as they will be familiar with the engine.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Its either cam belt has slipped or the cam pulley bolt has allowed the cam to get out of position / slipped or the cam sensor is not working properly. It just might possibly be the belt has got loose due to a partially seizer tensioner. I would check this yourself if you can get the cover off. A new tensioner is a cheap fix. If you are stranded I agree try the Fiat ppeople as they will have the gear to check the timing is correct. If the valve timing is correct then it must be the sensor or a dodgy wiring harness / harness connection.

 

[esquarcit]

Please do let us know how it works out. - good luck.

UPDATE guys!

So they called me today from the FORD dealer and they say they have found the solution. It took 3 weeks.

They will change:

1. Timing belt and water pump
2. CVT valve
3. pulley something (not sure what they said)
4. gasket something (same not sure what they meant!)

Hopefully will be really fixed They ordered the parts, middle of next week should we fixed.

Total price in Bulgaria is 600 euro (doesn't sound too bad!)

Again thank you all, I was in a serious distress moment yesterday. Plan B there were not many options around.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

UPDATE guys!

So they called me today from the FORD dealer and they say they have found the solution. It took 3 weeks.

They will change:

1. Timing belt and water pump
2. CVT valve
3. pulley something (not sure what they said)
4. gasket something (same not sure what they meant!)

Hopefully will be really fixed They ordered the parts, middle of next week should we fixed.

Total price in Bulgaria is 600 euro (doesn't sound too bad!)

Again thank you all, I was in a serious distress moment yesterday. Plan B there were not many options around.

So complete timing belt kit (including water pump,which, if you're going to do it "right" is the way to do it).
CVT Valve - that's the valve which controls oil flow to the VVT pulley on the camshaft.
Pulley something? Want to bet it's the VVT pulley for the cam?
Gasket something? well you're going to need a cam cover gasket because the cover has to come off to do the "stuff" listed above.

So, looks like they replaced just about everything we suggested might be causing the problem? It jolly well better work now!

 

[jackwhoo]

Plus it is way overdue for new timing belt if it hasn't been replaced before now so good it's going to be done (-: